Donny's Ramblings

Let’s Combat This Head On

56 Comments

One thing that has always angered me about Christians is that they refuse to meet certain challenges head-on. I was recently sent a video that attacks the basis for Christianity and questions whether or not Jesus really existed. I used to send similar videos to Christians during my Christian-Hating Years. Nobody would take the time to respond. They were always quick to dismiss.

The problem with that type of attitude, in my opinion, is that we and our children are going to continue to be asked questions such as those that are raised by this video:

Click here to watch “Zeitgeist The Movie”
(runtime: 26 minutes, 20 seconds)

The video is 26 minutes long. It is clearly anti-Christianity, and it raises lots of questions. The funny thing is that I bet pastors across the country, when and if they’re asked about this, will likely ignore it or dismiss it with questions on faith and whether or not Christians should watch such content. Are we so fragile that we can’t view what those who don’t believe have begun arming themselves with?

To be honest, if someone approached me for an opinion on this video (which someone actually recently did) I don’t have answers for them. I’ve been searching for answers on my own, and believe each of us need to do our own research, but I also think our spiritual leaders need to educate us on how to deal with things like this. And I’m not talking about “blow off” answers. We need real meat here. People aren’t as ignorant as they once were, my friends.

I’ve promised the person who sent me the link that I’d respond, unlike the Christians to whom I used to raise similar questions. Watch the video (click here) and tell me what you think, and how you’d respond.

56 thoughts on “Let’s Combat This Head On

  1. I haven’t watched the video so my response isn’t really what you are looking for (sorry). I have a feeling a lot of pastors and/or Christians might just dismiss some certain questions that are raised is that there isn’t really a need. Most of the claims about what Christianity is based on are been debunked for so years. Biblical scholarship is so well founded and solid that other claims don’t hold much weight.

    So yes, pastors and all Christians of various sorts need to be able to refute the questions raised (which is what you are getting at), but sometimes there isn’t much you can say. People who throw these “foundation shaking” claims around don’t actually want to listen to modern Biblical scholarship because to them it is biased (but they are perfectly willing to listen to their own, usually quite unfounded, “scholarship”). Unfortunately for them, there has been so much time, effort, and money spent on researching the actual foundation of Christianity that there isn’t much need to tackle every “thinker” that claims they happen to know what things were “really” like.

    You only need to argue for gravity for so long, many people eventually drop a hammer on their toe and start believing.

  2. I haven’t watched the video so my response isn’t really what you are looking for (sorry). I have a feeling a lot of pastors and/or Christians might just dismiss some certain questions that are raised is that there isn’t really a need. Most of the claims about what Christianity is based on are been debunked for so years. Biblical scholarship is so well founded and solid that other claims don’t hold much weight.

    So yes, pastors and all Christians of various sorts need to be able to refute the questions raised (which is what you are getting at), but sometimes there isn’t much you can say. People who throw these “foundation shaking” claims around don’t actually want to listen to modern Biblical scholarship because to them it is biased (but they are perfectly willing to listen to their own, usually quite unfounded, “scholarship”). Unfortunately for them, there has been so much time, effort, and money spent on researching the actual foundation of Christianity that there isn’t much need to tackle every “thinker” that claims they happen to know what things were “really” like.

    You only need to argue for gravity for so long, many people eventually drop a hammer on their toe and start believing.

  3. Matt,

    Watch this video. It’s tough. It’s not the typical easy-to-blow-off garbage.

  4. Matt,

    Watch this video. It’s tough. It’s not the typical easy-to-blow-off garbage.

  5. After watching it I just feel sad for those that believe that essentially Christianity is astrological in origin. My original remarks still hold it seems. The problem with any sort of conspiracy theory (which is that this is) is that they are hard to combat because they take elements of truth and twist them.

    Most Christians don’t actually think that Jesus was born on Dec. 25. That isn’t that remarkable, it was the reclamation of a pagan holiday.

    There are plenty of places in the OT (as well as the NT) that are similar to pagan myths. So what? Biblical scholars know that. The original authors knew that. They knew how to write in a way that would speak to their audience. Does that mean the stories were false? No, it means they were spoken in a way that would resonate with the hearers, just like any good author would do.

    The other issues is the problem with scholarship. While there are many claims in the video about what the pre-Christian messiah figures were like and how they were similar to Jesus, it is never said anything about the scholarship behind those claims. I have no doubt that there were indeed messiah figures before Jesus’ time, I am fine with that. The problem here is that many of the sources often come from periods much later than what they are talking about. Most Christians and scholars ignore any of the gnostic gospels’ claims about Jesus because they were written 200+ years after Jesus’ death and so cannot really be used as reliable material (and scholars would mock Christians if they did use it), so why should we buy any of the things that are said about these messianic figures pre-Jesus when most of that information came much later than the actual time period? There is also the issue of attestation. The Bible is hugely attested to with thousands of manuscripts backing up the original texts, where is the attestation with the material on these other sun gods? As an example, should I believe that because one hieroglyphic may have indicated a virgin birth that the thousands of textual witnesses to the Biblical record are a copy? I don’t think so.

    I have no doubt the video would be compelling to some, but not I. And I don’t think that is just a blind dismissal either. Yeah, it needs to be dealt with, but it needs to be dealt with on a scholastic level (which has been done for a long time). The conspiracy that religion is just a means of political and sociological control is just a logical fallacy.

    Oh and as an aside, I love it when atheists who seem to know so much about the Bible and Christians mock the belief that us Christians think that the world is 6000 years old. (Personally, I am fine if people do believe that but) I have never thought that and it isn’t something that the Bible actually claims. It is a pretty weak argument against Christianity.

  6. After watching it I just feel sad for those that believe that essentially Christianity is astrological in origin. My original remarks still hold it seems. The problem with any sort of conspiracy theory (which is that this is) is that they are hard to combat because they take elements of truth and twist them.

    Most Christians don’t actually think that Jesus was born on Dec. 25. That isn’t that remarkable, it was the reclamation of a pagan holiday.

    There are plenty of places in the OT (as well as the NT) that are similar to pagan myths. So what? Biblical scholars know that. The original authors knew that. They knew how to write in a way that would speak to their audience. Does that mean the stories were false? No, it means they were spoken in a way that would resonate with the hearers, just like any good author would do.

    The other issues is the problem with scholarship. While there are many claims in the video about what the pre-Christian messiah figures were like and how they were similar to Jesus, it is never said anything about the scholarship behind those claims. I have no doubt that there were indeed messiah figures before Jesus’ time, I am fine with that. The problem here is that many of the sources often come from periods much later than what they are talking about. Most Christians and scholars ignore any of the gnostic gospels’ claims about Jesus because they were written 200+ years after Jesus’ death and so cannot really be used as reliable material (and scholars would mock Christians if they did use it), so why should we buy any of the things that are said about these messianic figures pre-Jesus when most of that information came much later than the actual time period? There is also the issue of attestation. The Bible is hugely attested to with thousands of manuscripts backing up the original texts, where is the attestation with the material on these other sun gods? As an example, should I believe that because one hieroglyphic may have indicated a virgin birth that the thousands of textual witnesses to the Biblical record are a copy? I don’t think so.

    I have no doubt the video would be compelling to some, but not I. And I don’t think that is just a blind dismissal either. Yeah, it needs to be dealt with, but it needs to be dealt with on a scholastic level (which has been done for a long time). The conspiracy that religion is just a means of political and sociological control is just a logical fallacy.

    Oh and as an aside, I love it when atheists who seem to know so much about the Bible and Christians mock the belief that us Christians think that the world is 6000 years old. (Personally, I am fine if people do believe that but) I have never thought that and it isn’t something that the Bible actually claims. It is a pretty weak argument against Christianity.

  7. Shame Shame!
    Donny, How dare you!

    Most of your ‘religious’ readers will ignore this post. The rest will be but hurt and start questioning your intension. I think that’s what you are aiming for Donny because you like the shock factor involved. You like to shock people.
    I predict that you would never be so bold as to post anything to offend your ‘religious’ readers, or question their strong closed minded belief system without a wild card in hand. It just wouldn’t make since.
    I believe that your wild card will arrive shortly in the form of “Part Two”, where you decide that you are going to break down that video and take away all the mystery or credibility by using ‘the word of god’ or the politically correct version of ‘christianity’ to disprove it.

    Personally, I think it’s ‘ALL’ a bunch of malarkey!
    .02

  8. Shame Shame!
    Donny, How dare you!

    Most of your ‘religious’ readers will ignore this post. The rest will be but hurt and start questioning your intension. I think that’s what you are aiming for Donny because you like the shock factor involved. You like to shock people.
    I predict that you would never be so bold as to post anything to offend your ‘religious’ readers, or question their strong closed minded belief system without a wild card in hand. It just wouldn’t make since.
    I believe that your wild card will arrive shortly in the form of “Part Two”, where you decide that you are going to break down that video and take away all the mystery or credibility by using ‘the word of god’ or the politically correct version of ‘christianity’ to disprove it.

    Personally, I think it’s ‘ALL’ a bunch of malarkey!
    .02

  9. So I just got done watching the movie, and it’s easy to be frustrated and angry. First thing first is you can’t 100 % prove Jesus, and this is a world that has to see to believe. The problem with this is that looks can be decieving. I heard a lot of these claims when I was younger and into new age and conspiracy theory, and I bit hook, line, and sinker. Eventually God reached out and touched my heart, and made truth real in my life.

    With everything they “prove” there are some questions in return.
    And believe it or not there are some people who go to church, get a fake feeling, and ride on it. There were some horrible atrocities performed with the supposed “name” and “love” of our savior in mind, and I think we should take every chance to appologize. I also feel that we need to look at the flip side for all non-believers of this sort. So the conspiracy goes that it’s all about control, because they don’t want someone telling them what to do, so let’s look at what the “freedom” to do what you want has brought about in our society.

    Drug Addiction, which leads to disease and death, suicide, depression, sexual abuse for a fix, which also feeds the current plethora of sexually transmitted diseases, etc.

    Infidelity and “playboyism” which leads to pornopgraphy, abortion, divorce, destruction of families which may lead to violence in children, or drug addiction, etc.

    Rebellion, though it did found this country, also breeds war, racism, destruction, raping, pillaging, all in the name of freedom

    I could go on with this, but it would get a bigt redundant. Facts speak for themselves, man wants to control himself, and he can’t, when he does, a string of negative things seem to happen.

    so thats one point. The other is if we look at other religions, older pagan religions, etc. we do see some common threads, most of it started at the tower of Babel, where man (in another brilliant act of rebellion) tried to exalt himself above God, so God broke them up, gave them different languages, etc. hence why so many gods have similar stories, they do come from common threads, however, there has to be a true root, and you can either believe it was Noah, or gilgamesh, or whichever cultural Noah icon you would like to view it from. I will take the bibles view.

    Finally the last thing is it comes down to faith, if you could wrap your mind around God, understand all His ways, His doings, and why everything happened, and how He made it happen, He wouldn’t be much of a god worth worshipping. We love control and seek a god or a method that we hold the ropes to. The God of the bible isn’t that god, there is a devil, he rebelled and is a master manipulator, and can weeve a lie of a little bit of truth, and this is a perfect example.

    You can’t make someone who doesn’t want to believe believe, but you can be an example for Christ. Don’t just talk about it, go do something. If you are a keyboard warrior, or debating everyone you know, you aren’t doing the work, you’re just airing your opinion. Help the poor, go on missions, clean-up your community, get in communion with the Lord, get to know Him a little better, find out His will, and heal somebody, ask Him to use you for a miracle work to be an example tothose around you, anyhting, but it’s a lot more than just talk.

    I’m sorry for my rant, I don’t even know if it went anywhere, if it did and you wanna hit me back, go for it.

    Remember the time is short and the end is coming (and I’m not talking about a bad “this is the dawning of the age of Aquarious” from “Hair” type of way, I’m talking about the day conversations like this cease, be prepared and love your neighbors.)

    Peace Love and God Bless,
    Gerimiah

  10. So I just got done watching the movie, and it’s easy to be frustrated and angry. First thing first is you can’t 100 % prove Jesus, and this is a world that has to see to believe. The problem with this is that looks can be decieving. I heard a lot of these claims when I was younger and into new age and conspiracy theory, and I bit hook, line, and sinker. Eventually God reached out and touched my heart, and made truth real in my life.

    With everything they “prove” there are some questions in return.
    And believe it or not there are some people who go to church, get a fake feeling, and ride on it. There were some horrible atrocities performed with the supposed “name” and “love” of our savior in mind, and I think we should take every chance to appologize. I also feel that we need to look at the flip side for all non-believers of this sort. So the conspiracy goes that it’s all about control, because they don’t want someone telling them what to do, so let’s look at what the “freedom” to do what you want has brought about in our society.

    Drug Addiction, which leads to disease and death, suicide, depression, sexual abuse for a fix, which also feeds the current plethora of sexually transmitted diseases, etc.

    Infidelity and “playboyism” which leads to pornopgraphy, abortion, divorce, destruction of families which may lead to violence in children, or drug addiction, etc.

    Rebellion, though it did found this country, also breeds war, racism, destruction, raping, pillaging, all in the name of freedom

    I could go on with this, but it would get a bigt redundant. Facts speak for themselves, man wants to control himself, and he can’t, when he does, a string of negative things seem to happen.

    so thats one point. The other is if we look at other religions, older pagan religions, etc. we do see some common threads, most of it started at the tower of Babel, where man (in another brilliant act of rebellion) tried to exalt himself above God, so God broke them up, gave them different languages, etc. hence why so many gods have similar stories, they do come from common threads, however, there has to be a true root, and you can either believe it was Noah, or gilgamesh, or whichever cultural Noah icon you would like to view it from. I will take the bibles view.

    Finally the last thing is it comes down to faith, if you could wrap your mind around God, understand all His ways, His doings, and why everything happened, and how He made it happen, He wouldn’t be much of a god worth worshipping. We love control and seek a god or a method that we hold the ropes to. The God of the bible isn’t that god, there is a devil, he rebelled and is a master manipulator, and can weeve a lie of a little bit of truth, and this is a perfect example.

    You can’t make someone who doesn’t want to believe believe, but you can be an example for Christ. Don’t just talk about it, go do something. If you are a keyboard warrior, or debating everyone you know, you aren’t doing the work, you’re just airing your opinion. Help the poor, go on missions, clean-up your community, get in communion with the Lord, get to know Him a little better, find out His will, and heal somebody, ask Him to use you for a miracle work to be an example tothose around you, anyhting, but it’s a lot more than just talk.

    I’m sorry for my rant, I don’t even know if it went anywhere, if it did and you wanna hit me back, go for it.

    Remember the time is short and the end is coming (and I’m not talking about a bad “this is the dawning of the age of Aquarious” from “Hair” type of way, I’m talking about the day conversations like this cease, be prepared and love your neighbors.)

    Peace Love and God Bless,
    Gerimiah

  11. In this, the great pavane, one must choose ones partner wisely. One may choose light or darkness, good or evil, life or death. If one chooses light, good, and life—thereby choosing to partner with Jesus Christ—one is assured of an eternity in Heaven. If one chooses darkness, evil, and death—thereby choosing to partner with Satan—one is assured of an eternity in Hell.

    Of course, there is a third alternative: One may choose not to choose, in which case one is assured of nothing. On Judgment Day, however, the Books will be opened, and all will be judged. Jesus spoke of the Judgment Day when he walked among men. He said “Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of’ Judgment” Matthew 12:36. “He that rejecteth me and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him. The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” John 12:48.

    A child has faith that he will see the sun each day, because he believes his mother and father when they tell him the sun will “rise” each morning. When he learns that the sun is fixed and it is the earth that is moving—rotating about the sun in an orbit, thereby creating the similitude of a rising and setting sun—his faith is not affected in any fashion: He still knows—through faith—that he will see the sun each morning. If meteorological or geographical circumstances prevent the morning appearance of the sun, it is not because the sun is not there! The sun is there; and even though it cannot be seen, the child knows, through faith, that it is there.

    If we do exist, there are only two possible explanations for our existence: We had a beginning or, we did not have a beginning. The Bible says, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1 :1). Most atheists maintain that there was no beginning. They believe that matter has always existed in the form of either matter or energy; and matter has been changed from form to form, but it has always been. The Humanist Manifesto says, “Matter is self-existing and not created.” That is the atheist’s belief.

    In any closed system, things tend to become disordered. Growing old is simple conformity to the second law of thermodynamics. In space, things also age. Astronomers refer to the aging process as heat death. If the cosmos is “everything that ever was or is or ever will be,” as Dr. Carl Sagan is so fond of saying, nothing could be added to it to improve its order or repair it. Even a universe that expands and collapses and expands again forever would die because it would lose light and heat each time it expanded and rebounded. The atheist’s assertion that matter/energy is eternal is scientifically wrong. The biblical assertion that there was a beginning is scientifically correct.

    If we know the creation has a beginning, we are faced with another logical question: Was the creation caused, or was it not caused? The Bible states, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” Not only does the Bible maintain that there was a cause (a creation), but it also tells us what the cause was. It was God. The atheist tells us that “matter is self-existing and not created.” If matter had a beginning and yet was uncaused, one must logically maintain that something would have had to come into existence out of nothing. From empty space—with no force, no matter, no energy, and no intelligence—matter would have to become existent. Even if this could happen by some strange new process unknown to science today, there is a logical problem: In order for matter to come out of nothing, all of our scientific laws dealing with the conservation of matter/energy would have to be wrong—invalidating all of chemistry. All of our laws of conservation of angular momentum would have to be wrong—invalidating all of physics. All of our laws of conservation of electric charge would have to be wrong—invalidating all of electronics. In order to believe matter is uncaused, one has to discard known laws and principles of science. No reasonable person is going to do this simply to maintain a personal atheistic position.

    If we know that the creation had a beginning, and we know that the beginning was caused, there is one last question for us to answer: What was the cause? The Bible tells us that God was the cause. We are further told that God did so with planning and reason and logic. Romans 1:20 tells us that we can know God is “through the things he has made.” The atheist, on the other hand, will try to convince us that we are the product of chance.

    The most prominent “proof,” as it were, that we were created and that we have a purpose lies in the simple fundamental truth that we possess free will. That free will allows us to choose our walk: Ultimately, each of us must choose to walk by sight or by faith. I choose to walk by faith.

    – David

  12. In this, the great pavane, one must choose ones partner wisely. One may choose light or darkness, good or evil, life or death. If one chooses light, good, and life—thereby choosing to partner with Jesus Christ—one is assured of an eternity in Heaven. If one chooses darkness, evil, and death—thereby choosing to partner with Satan—one is assured of an eternity in Hell.

    Of course, there is a third alternative: One may choose not to choose, in which case one is assured of nothing. On Judgment Day, however, the Books will be opened, and all will be judged. Jesus spoke of the Judgment Day when he walked among men. He said “Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of’ Judgment” Matthew 12:36. “He that rejecteth me and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him. The word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” John 12:48.

    A child has faith that he will see the sun each day, because he believes his mother and father when they tell him the sun will “rise” each morning. When he learns that the sun is fixed and it is the earth that is moving—rotating about the sun in an orbit, thereby creating the similitude of a rising and setting sun—his faith is not affected in any fashion: He still knows—through faith—that he will see the sun each morning. If meteorological or geographical circumstances prevent the morning appearance of the sun, it is not because the sun is not there! The sun is there; and even though it cannot be seen, the child knows, through faith, that it is there.

    If we do exist, there are only two possible explanations for our existence: We had a beginning or, we did not have a beginning. The Bible says, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1 :1). Most atheists maintain that there was no beginning. They believe that matter has always existed in the form of either matter or energy; and matter has been changed from form to form, but it has always been. The Humanist Manifesto says, “Matter is self-existing and not created.” That is the atheist’s belief.

    In any closed system, things tend to become disordered. Growing old is simple conformity to the second law of thermodynamics. In space, things also age. Astronomers refer to the aging process as heat death. If the cosmos is “everything that ever was or is or ever will be,” as Dr. Carl Sagan is so fond of saying, nothing could be added to it to improve its order or repair it. Even a universe that expands and collapses and expands again forever would die because it would lose light and heat each time it expanded and rebounded. The atheist’s assertion that matter/energy is eternal is scientifically wrong. The biblical assertion that there was a beginning is scientifically correct.

    If we know the creation has a beginning, we are faced with another logical question: Was the creation caused, or was it not caused? The Bible states, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” Not only does the Bible maintain that there was a cause (a creation), but it also tells us what the cause was. It was God. The atheist tells us that “matter is self-existing and not created.” If matter had a beginning and yet was uncaused, one must logically maintain that something would have had to come into existence out of nothing. From empty space—with no force, no matter, no energy, and no intelligence—matter would have to become existent. Even if this could happen by some strange new process unknown to science today, there is a logical problem: In order for matter to come out of nothing, all of our scientific laws dealing with the conservation of matter/energy would have to be wrong—invalidating all of chemistry. All of our laws of conservation of angular momentum would have to be wrong—invalidating all of physics. All of our laws of conservation of electric charge would have to be wrong—invalidating all of electronics. In order to believe matter is uncaused, one has to discard known laws and principles of science. No reasonable person is going to do this simply to maintain a personal atheistic position.

    If we know that the creation had a beginning, and we know that the beginning was caused, there is one last question for us to answer: What was the cause? The Bible tells us that God was the cause. We are further told that God did so with planning and reason and logic. Romans 1:20 tells us that we can know God is “through the things he has made.” The atheist, on the other hand, will try to convince us that we are the product of chance.

    The most prominent “proof,” as it were, that we were created and that we have a purpose lies in the simple fundamental truth that we possess free will. That free will allows us to choose our walk: Ultimately, each of us must choose to walk by sight or by faith. I choose to walk by faith.

    – David

  13. Hi David,

    Lets just pretend for a moment that you were wrong – that there is no God. What would happen to your current life? Would you live the life you live now, would your morality be the same?

  14. Hi David,

    Lets just pretend for a moment that you were wrong – that there is no God. What would happen to your current life? Would you live the life you live now, would your morality be the same?

  15. Hi Brent,

    If the devil is the “master manipulator”, then how can the two of us ever agree or compromise on anything, since you will always have to default to the “he/she must be the devil” – no matter how good my argument is?

  16. Hi Brent,

    If the devil is the “master manipulator”, then how can the two of us ever agree or compromise on anything, since you will always have to default to the “he/she must be the devil” – no matter how good my argument is?

  17. I am not going to claim that I know a lot or have extensive knowledge in any particular area. The other people that have responded to this blog have already said what I would have said anyways. So instead I am going to just lay out some basic ideas on how the credibility of videos such as these are completely absurd. Think of this video as something like “The National Enquirer”. Most of the stories are completely out there and are all based off a testimony of 1 person. Whether its true or not is dependent on the honesty of that individual. I just did a quick research on this example of what the video claims that it claims. Example: One of the myth gods is Mithra. http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html The claim they are using is all hearsay. Its the same kind of brainwashing that Evolutionists use. Have you noticed that this was only release on the internet. All the information that they give could be completely fabricated and for the record I dont know what is fabricated or is not. This is just another “religion” just like evolution, aetheist, etc. And when dealing with other religions all I can do is pray for them and hope they come to a knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Oh man…..and in regards to the movie using evolution. http://www.drdino.com Kent Hovinds DVD’s break down why evolution is a religion and how its all propaganda. He uses nothing but references that are available to the public. And also how the Christian community has been responsible for problems such as accepting evolution and also how all the different bible versions have been causing so many problems because its based off the wrong manuscripts.

    A few years ago I took it upon myself to attempt to debunk anything that goes against the Bible. But in the end I realized that people will be willing to fabricate, believe, preach, etc, their own personal religion which is exactly what the Bible predicts will happen in the end times.

    Its too early in the morning for me right now so if my spelling is off…my apologies.

    This is my 0.02

    But I would recommend to you to see if you can get Kent Hovinds DVD’s. Not so much for you but for your son so when hes in school he at least gets a different perspective.

  18. I am not going to claim that I know a lot or have extensive knowledge in any particular area. The other people that have responded to this blog have already said what I would have said anyways. So instead I am going to just lay out some basic ideas on how the credibility of videos such as these are completely absurd. Think of this video as something like “The National Enquirer”. Most of the stories are completely out there and are all based off a testimony of 1 person. Whether its true or not is dependent on the honesty of that individual. I just did a quick research on this example of what the video claims that it claims. Example: One of the myth gods is Mithra. http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html The claim they are using is all hearsay. Its the same kind of brainwashing that Evolutionists use. Have you noticed that this was only release on the internet. All the information that they give could be completely fabricated and for the record I dont know what is fabricated or is not. This is just another “religion” just like evolution, aetheist, etc. And when dealing with other religions all I can do is pray for them and hope they come to a knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Oh man…..and in regards to the movie using evolution. http://www.drdino.com Kent Hovinds DVD’s break down why evolution is a religion and how its all propaganda. He uses nothing but references that are available to the public. And also how the Christian community has been responsible for problems such as accepting evolution and also how all the different bible versions have been causing so many problems because its based off the wrong manuscripts.

    A few years ago I took it upon myself to attempt to debunk anything that goes against the Bible. But in the end I realized that people will be willing to fabricate, believe, preach, etc, their own personal religion which is exactly what the Bible predicts will happen in the end times.

    Its too early in the morning for me right now so if my spelling is off…my apologies.

    This is my 0.02

    But I would recommend to you to see if you can get Kent Hovinds DVD’s. Not so much for you but for your son so when hes in school he at least gets a different perspective.

  19. Donny,
    I agree that Christian often try to side-step such attacks. Still, I have been at this for over 25 years and do see a some improvement over the last few years. As for the movie, there are so many errors in this movie that to deal with them all would take a very long post. I will post a short response here, and will probably address this in more detail in a few of my weekly blogs/podcast that I do on my web site http://www.consider.org. If you have any particular questions let me know.

    Having just finished the movie, the first thing that struck me, besides the obvious errors, was how dated the movie was. Its main argument stems from pointing out parallels between Christian beliefs and other belief systems with the conclusion, implied or blatant that there must therefore be a link. Such reasoning was popular among skeptics in the first half of the 20th century and earlier, but as more serious work was done such argument were discarded, particularly after Samuel Sandmel’s article Parallelamania in the 1960s.

    The main flaw in such arguments is that they are selective and thus superficial. They are selective in that they take only those things that match, and ignore differences. This leads them to be superficial in that the mere appearance of a parallel however weak is taken as a parallel. The net result is that you can find mean and significance where it does not exist. For example, consider the parallels that have been noted between the assassinations of Lincoln and Kennedy. The problem scholars found is that the more they looked for parallels the more they found them, even between things that clearly did not have any links. Thus scholars long ago concluded that such parallels were pretty much meaningless.

    However a more serious problem occurs with the films choice of parallels. Most of the first part of the film is linked in one way or another to Jesus being born on December 25th and how this links in with winter solstice celebrations. The problem is that one thing pretty much all scholars, skeptical and believers alike, agree on is that Jesus was not born on December 25th. The NT describes the shepherds in the fields with their sheep at the time of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:8) which would have been highly unlikely on December 25, and points more to the spring as a time for his birth. The reason we celebrate December 25th is because a couple of centuries after the birth of Christ the church set that date deliberately to replace the Winter solstice celebrations, so of course there is a parallel to the winter solstice, but not for the reasons implied in the film. With this fact alone most of the first part of the movie falls apart.

    – Elgin

  20. Donny,
    I agree that Christian often try to side-step such attacks. Still, I have been at this for over 25 years and do see a some improvement over the last few years. As for the movie, there are so many errors in this movie that to deal with them all would take a very long post. I will post a short response here, and will probably address this in more detail in a few of my weekly blogs/podcast that I do on my web site http://www.consider.org. If you have any particular questions let me know.

    Having just finished the movie, the first thing that struck me, besides the obvious errors, was how dated the movie was. Its main argument stems from pointing out parallels between Christian beliefs and other belief systems with the conclusion, implied or blatant that there must therefore be a link. Such reasoning was popular among skeptics in the first half of the 20th century and earlier, but as more serious work was done such argument were discarded, particularly after Samuel Sandmel’s article Parallelamania in the 1960s.

    The main flaw in such arguments is that they are selective and thus superficial. They are selective in that they take only those things that match, and ignore differences. This leads them to be superficial in that the mere appearance of a parallel however weak is taken as a parallel. The net result is that you can find mean and significance where it does not exist. For example, consider the parallels that have been noted between the assassinations of Lincoln and Kennedy. The problem scholars found is that the more they looked for parallels the more they found them, even between things that clearly did not have any links. Thus scholars long ago concluded that such parallels were pretty much meaningless.

    However a more serious problem occurs with the films choice of parallels. Most of the first part of the film is linked in one way or another to Jesus being born on December 25th and how this links in with winter solstice celebrations. The problem is that one thing pretty much all scholars, skeptical and believers alike, agree on is that Jesus was not born on December 25th. The NT describes the shepherds in the fields with their sheep at the time of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:8) which would have been highly unlikely on December 25, and points more to the spring as a time for his birth. The reason we celebrate December 25th is because a couple of centuries after the birth of Christ the church set that date deliberately to replace the Winter solstice celebrations, so of course there is a parallel to the winter solstice, but not for the reasons implied in the film. With this fact alone most of the first part of the movie falls apart.

    – Elgin

  21. Donny,

    After reviewing the video in more detail I will be doing complete three part refutation of the video that will deal with all the major claims in my blog/podcast. I will let you know as they go up. If you need any answer quicker let me know.

    – Elgin

  22. Donny,

    After reviewing the video in more detail I will be doing complete three part refutation of the video that will deal with all the major claims in my blog/podcast. I will let you know as they go up. If you need any answer quicker let me know.

    – Elgin

  23. There have been some great responses so far. Many of the things I was going to write as a follow up have already been covered. That being said, I’ll still write as planned but will be sure to mention those who brought up the same things I intended to mention.

    At the moment I’m vacationing in Washington State and will not be responding much until I return home early next week.

    Thanks to everyone that has commented. Keep doing so!

  24. There have been some great responses so far. Many of the things I was going to write as a follow up have already been covered. That being said, I’ll still write as planned but will be sure to mention those who brought up the same things I intended to mention.

    At the moment I’m vacationing in Washington State and will not be responding much until I return home early next week.

    Thanks to everyone that has commented. Keep doing so!

  25. Bossman,

    Without God, there would be no certainty. I would, therefore, not be able to say with certainty what my moral stance would be, were God not extant. Of course, without God there would be no measure of morality–save for man’s laws. Since man’s laws are based upon God’s laws, there would be no laws of man.

    Without laws or morality, I can only suppose I would be feral and without constraint–as would the entirety of humanity.

    It is an unattractive image. I am undeniably pleased that God exists, and I welcome with great happiness the opportunity to aspire to the paradigm presented by his son, Jesus Christ.

    – David

  26. Bossman,

    Without God, there would be no certainty. I would, therefore, not be able to say with certainty what my moral stance would be, were God not extant. Of course, without God there would be no measure of morality–save for man’s laws. Since man’s laws are based upon God’s laws, there would be no laws of man.

    Without laws or morality, I can only suppose I would be feral and without constraint–as would the entirety of humanity.

    It is an unattractive image. I am undeniably pleased that God exists, and I welcome with great happiness the opportunity to aspire to the paradigm presented by his son, Jesus Christ.

    – David

  27. Oh Albert please don’t link Dr. Dino. Scientists don’t take him seriously because he doesn’t do science. (I write more about him at my post Creation Science.)

    Yay for being in WA state Donny! Hope you are enjoying your visit!

  28. Oh Albert please don’t link Dr. Dino. Scientists don’t take him seriously because he doesn’t do science. (I write more about him at my post Creation Science.)

    Yay for being in WA state Donny! Hope you are enjoying your visit!

  29. Oh, and I should say linking Digg isn’t really constructive either because there is very rarely any sort of intelligent conversation there.

  30. Oh, and I should say linking Digg isn’t really constructive either because there is very rarely any sort of intelligent conversation there.

  31. Donny,

    I have posted the first of my three part review
    of the movie
    .
    The MP3 should be up shortly. Let me know if you have any questions.

    Elgin

  32. Donny,

    I have posted the first of my three part review
    of the movie
    .
    The MP3 should be up shortly. Let me know if you have any questions.

    Elgin

  33. The MP3 for the first part of Elgin’s review has now been posted at Running Toward the Goal. If any of you tried to get it before I got it posted, I apologize–try now, and it’s up.

  34. The MP3 for the first part of Elgin’s review has now been posted at Running Toward the Goal. If any of you tried to get it before I got it posted, I apologize–try now, and it’s up.

  35. Dear Donny,
    Interesting trip I’ve been on, though I in no way conclude with my following statements. But they are what I’ve been churning in my soul lately. Definitely have to pray about all of this as I am definitely battling some unfamiliar spirit here, similar to the gadget/worm that was placed in Neo (Matrix 1), however my mind and spirit are perplexed, but my faith not shaken.
    I have for the most part, not taken the typical perspective or fronting argument that others have in terms of avoiding such issues of claims by other religions or other belief systems, especially, when some are being duped by them because of the claims.
    However, being at a different place in my life at this time spiritually, I became aware of something that troubled me. Not so much your challenge, but what happened to me because of the challenge. So, here goes.
    I watched the movie. Very interesting, however, I realized that because there was so much “usurping” of Christianity going on, I believe in my spirit, I was forced to face the bombardment of claims. I began to get a headache, my spirit was “vexed”, and all of a sudden, there was a cloud over my mind and heart, and everything I did was laborious. Just doing some errands was difficult. I began to pray to God about what I was feeling and identified that it came from what I saw in the movie (by the way, the entire movie is available to watch at around 2 hours).
    Anyway, I decided to “Investigate” what was going on inside of me. I wonder what others may go through having less sense of God present in their lives or worse, none at all.
    Well, working on trying to become a “help desk” person with computers, some things became evident to me about what I was going through. I can probably best explain it by saying that as I learn about how viruses and spyware infiltrate computers, sometimes appearing like programs or are subtle or unknown to an operator, these worms seek to compromise or destroy systems or give hackers information revealing vulnerabilities that ultimately compromise personal information or just plain disrupt a day or more at work. If it doesn’t just cause our systems to “hang”, then it is destroying our systems from within, perhaps without us even knowing it. So much so, that all of our work is sick or diseased, or our personal information is compromised, but that we may need to reformat the system as a last resort and start all over again.
    Thus, similarly, if disinformation can be assimilated into our psyche or spirits or souls, that slowly tear away at what we believe acquired by what we’ve learned from scripture, experience and revelation, then the insurgent “hacker” of our souls is tapping into our vulnerabilities and possibly disassembling our “constitution”. Thus, perhaps, causing us to become something completely different, from the inside out, full of compromise and if possible poison that will destroy us.
    Thus, even further similarly to what is happening in our country. With forces, both bold and subtle, they are emasculating our country from the Constitution down. From the false inception of a non-constitutional document of “Separation of Church and State”, to removal of the Bible and prayer and everything else “Christian”, given that God and all things Judeo-Christian were a part of the foundations of our history as a country, to totally diluting us down to a deflated shell of purpose, welcoming everything in to our demise. Like being whored.
    No less is the case with such a movie as Zeitgeist, as has been the recent Da Vinci Code, Inconvenient Truth and Fahrenheit 911 movies, to name a few as has also been the case with cults throughout the years to sway people from the truth that will set them free.
    I realize that while there is the idea that what we don’t know or understand, we fear or push away. I also realize that there is understood caution in scripture to be careful with information you receive, because for sure, it is not just information, but in the case of this multi-pronged attack at every level, there is a definite spirit behind the agenda that can seep its way into the soul and totally cause. And while none of this deals with the specific claims of the movie, the nature of these attacks can distract us from God’s purposes. However, certainly the scriptures equally tell us that
    “3For though we walk (live) in the flesh, we are not carrying on our warfare according to the flesh and using mere human weapons.
    4For the weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood], but they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds,
    5[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),”
    2 Corinthians 10: 3-5 Amplified Bible
    Thus, we are given a mandate to take the defense in the debate, though by intellect or factual knowledge of the topic or histories, I am not well versed. However, like with computers, you don’t keep your security levels at low, but instead at medium or high. You can’t approach any of this with a completely “open” mind, because then you are exposing yourself in a way that the enemy of our souls seeks to disarm us – it would be foolish in war, on our computers, no less and more so for that which our souls would be exposed to, cautious as you would when approaching anything in contrast, that was blatantly demonic – well, this is and worse, it’s subtle.
    Generally speaking, when dealing with the premise for such issues, I find some similarities with the following. Whether it is FahrenHype 911 that challenges Moore’s Fahrenheit 911 conspiratorial claims, or a host of other scientist that challenge, what they claim is the “junk science” of Gore’s Inconvenient Truth, or as one historian/novelist in discussion about the Da Vinci Code says, considering the list of sources for the information proposed in the first pages of the story, presented as all real sources but doesn’t explain that there is some false information in the sources. Thus, proposing for example that we all know how World War II ended, and thousands of novels are written around the story. They don’t change the factual portions, they just write the novel around the facts. Then, considering the devious way in which the Da Vinci code is written, they completely change the factual portions to create an entirely different story with an entirely different premise, not to mention all of the half truths and implied misperceptions and misinformation that is presented as plausible or factual evidence. Well, such is the case with Zeitgeist.
    Though I in no way claim to know much about Mythology or much of the “history” or details about the proposed statements or claims presented through much of Zeitgeist, I somehow felt there was some flaw in what they were claiming. So I looked up some things on the internet, and for some of it, I couldn’t find the “concluded” claims. I found things around what was being implied, but not as much as they were claiming. In other words, I could read something, and come up with my own conclusion, and present it as “truth” as they seemed to have done. Of course, there is an art to debate, presentation and marketing your ideas to make them seem plausible. Once they can establish a sense of truth then, they begin to present what appear to be conspiratorial evidences throughout the rest of the movie.
    Well, as with most religion or cults, there is always the common ground type positions they take such as loving neighbors, be kind, nice…etc. However, in this presentation of “truth”, they are trying to say that most of the foundational or pillar issues in Christianity are no different either in ancient beliefs, etc. thus, essentially kicking out from under Christianity its difference from the rest of the pack. And it all sounds logically correct or reasonably sound.
    In my quest for clarity, I realized that I could not just depend on the argument of my “own” experience, because everyone is having experiences, whether they are demonic or holy. Also, since this was attacking some of the very core issues of Christianity, I realize that in some senses, even a lot of the common scriptures used in arguments of this type, have now essentially been debunked. So what am I left with to even confront some of this…? Well, since I am for the most part, ignorant of Mythology, Hindu and Buddhist and every other ancient religion presented, I figured I’d just take a quick look at any debates going on at this time regarding the movie both from the Christian side versus anyone else. Though this is isn’t extensive, I did find one very interesting debate so far, that tackles not just statements from the movie but nuances around the whole debate. I figure I’ll leave some of the specifics to others who may know more and see what they have to say. The excellent link is:
    http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=98970

    Certainly, I could delve further into this, and most likely will when dealing with someone who may have been duped (while I believe that a lot of non-believers take the position that what you believe you keep to yourself, thus, we may not hear a lot from them, but instead, we’ll see it in how it manifests itself in society and in the following generations “infected” with this virus/spyware), but for now, I realize that what the “Baals and Baal worshipers” of this age need, considering that Zeitgeist by definition means something in the order of “Spirit of this age or era”, is a spiritual “showdown” so to speak in the order of Elijah as shown in 1 Kings 18, to get a response like that in verse 39. So, I am off to become like Elijah, if that were possible, or David to slay a giant… become strong in the true God and know His word, so that like Jesus, I can tell Satan – It is written!!! And “get thee behind me Satan!!!. Like the war in Iraq and for all intents and purposes, around the world – the war on terror, it can not only be defeated by force, but by God’s spirit, because this isn’t just a physical war but a spiritual war, and it must meet its match. I just hope that I can make it through boot camp.

    Well, this is all for now, till I come up with more on this very important topic as a whole.

  36. Dear Donny,
    Interesting trip I’ve been on, though I in no way conclude with my following statements. But they are what I’ve been churning in my soul lately. Definitely have to pray about all of this as I am definitely battling some unfamiliar spirit here, similar to the gadget/worm that was placed in Neo (Matrix 1), however my mind and spirit are perplexed, but my faith not shaken.
    I have for the most part, not taken the typical perspective or fronting argument that others have in terms of avoiding such issues of claims by other religions or other belief systems, especially, when some are being duped by them because of the claims.
    However, being at a different place in my life at this time spiritually, I became aware of something that troubled me. Not so much your challenge, but what happened to me because of the challenge. So, here goes.
    I watched the movie. Very interesting, however, I realized that because there was so much “usurping” of Christianity going on, I believe in my spirit, I was forced to face the bombardment of claims. I began to get a headache, my spirit was “vexed”, and all of a sudden, there was a cloud over my mind and heart, and everything I did was laborious. Just doing some errands was difficult. I began to pray to God about what I was feeling and identified that it came from what I saw in the movie (by the way, the entire movie is available to watch at around 2 hours).
    Anyway, I decided to “Investigate” what was going on inside of me. I wonder what others may go through having less sense of God present in their lives or worse, none at all.
    Well, working on trying to become a “help desk” person with computers, some things became evident to me about what I was going through. I can probably best explain it by saying that as I learn about how viruses and spyware infiltrate computers, sometimes appearing like programs or are subtle or unknown to an operator, these worms seek to compromise or destroy systems or give hackers information revealing vulnerabilities that ultimately compromise personal information or just plain disrupt a day or more at work. If it doesn’t just cause our systems to “hang”, then it is destroying our systems from within, perhaps without us even knowing it. So much so, that all of our work is sick or diseased, or our personal information is compromised, but that we may need to reformat the system as a last resort and start all over again.
    Thus, similarly, if disinformation can be assimilated into our psyche or spirits or souls, that slowly tear away at what we believe acquired by what we’ve learned from scripture, experience and revelation, then the insurgent “hacker” of our souls is tapping into our vulnerabilities and possibly disassembling our “constitution”. Thus, perhaps, causing us to become something completely different, from the inside out, full of compromise and if possible poison that will destroy us.
    Thus, even further similarly to what is happening in our country. With forces, both bold and subtle, they are emasculating our country from the Constitution down. From the false inception of a non-constitutional document of “Separation of Church and State”, to removal of the Bible and prayer and everything else “Christian”, given that God and all things Judeo-Christian were a part of the foundations of our history as a country, to totally diluting us down to a deflated shell of purpose, welcoming everything in to our demise. Like being whored.
    No less is the case with such a movie as Zeitgeist, as has been the recent Da Vinci Code, Inconvenient Truth and Fahrenheit 911 movies, to name a few as has also been the case with cults throughout the years to sway people from the truth that will set them free.
    I realize that while there is the idea that what we don’t know or understand, we fear or push away. I also realize that there is understood caution in scripture to be careful with information you receive, because for sure, it is not just information, but in the case of this multi-pronged attack at every level, there is a definite spirit behind the agenda that can seep its way into the soul and totally cause. And while none of this deals with the specific claims of the movie, the nature of these attacks can distract us from God’s purposes. However, certainly the scriptures equally tell us that
    “3For though we walk (live) in the flesh, we are not carrying on our warfare according to the flesh and using mere human weapons.
    4For the weapons of our warfare are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood], but they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds,
    5[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),”
    2 Corinthians 10: 3-5 Amplified Bible
    Thus, we are given a mandate to take the defense in the debate, though by intellect or factual knowledge of the topic or histories, I am not well versed. However, like with computers, you don’t keep your security levels at low, but instead at medium or high. You can’t approach any of this with a completely “open” mind, because then you are exposing yourself in a way that the enemy of our souls seeks to disarm us – it would be foolish in war, on our computers, no less and more so for that which our souls would be exposed to, cautious as you would when approaching anything in contrast, that was blatantly demonic – well, this is and worse, it’s subtle.
    Generally speaking, when dealing with the premise for such issues, I find some similarities with the following. Whether it is FahrenHype 911 that challenges Moore’s Fahrenheit 911 conspiratorial claims, or a host of other scientist that challenge, what they claim is the “junk science” of Gore’s Inconvenient Truth, or as one historian/novelist in discussion about the Da Vinci Code says, considering the list of sources for the information proposed in the first pages of the story, presented as all real sources but doesn’t explain that there is some false information in the sources. Thus, proposing for example that we all know how World War II ended, and thousands of novels are written around the story. They don’t change the factual portions, they just write the novel around the facts. Then, considering the devious way in which the Da Vinci code is written, they completely change the factual portions to create an entirely different story with an entirely different premise, not to mention all of the half truths and implied misperceptions and misinformation that is presented as plausible or factual evidence. Well, such is the case with Zeitgeist.
    Though I in no way claim to know much about Mythology or much of the “history” or details about the proposed statements or claims presented through much of Zeitgeist, I somehow felt there was some flaw in what they were claiming. So I looked up some things on the internet, and for some of it, I couldn’t find the “concluded” claims. I found things around what was being implied, but not as much as they were claiming. In other words, I could read something, and come up with my own conclusion, and present it as “truth” as they seemed to have done. Of course, there is an art to debate, presentation and marketing your ideas to make them seem plausible. Once they can establish a sense of truth then, they begin to present what appear to be conspiratorial evidences throughout the rest of the movie.
    Well, as with most religion or cults, there is always the common ground type positions they take such as loving neighbors, be kind, nice…etc. However, in this presentation of “truth”, they are trying to say that most of the foundational or pillar issues in Christianity are no different either in ancient beliefs, etc. thus, essentially kicking out from under Christianity its difference from the rest of the pack. And it all sounds logically correct or reasonably sound.
    In my quest for clarity, I realized that I could not just depend on the argument of my “own” experience, because everyone is having experiences, whether they are demonic or holy. Also, since this was attacking some of the very core issues of Christianity, I realize that in some senses, even a lot of the common scriptures used in arguments of this type, have now essentially been debunked. So what am I left with to even confront some of this…? Well, since I am for the most part, ignorant of Mythology, Hindu and Buddhist and every other ancient religion presented, I figured I’d just take a quick look at any debates going on at this time regarding the movie both from the Christian side versus anyone else. Though this is isn’t extensive, I did find one very interesting debate so far, that tackles not just statements from the movie but nuances around the whole debate. I figure I’ll leave some of the specifics to others who may know more and see what they have to say. The excellent link is:
    http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=98970

    Certainly, I could delve further into this, and most likely will when dealing with someone who may have been duped (while I believe that a lot of non-believers take the position that what you believe you keep to yourself, thus, we may not hear a lot from them, but instead, we’ll see it in how it manifests itself in society and in the following generations “infected” with this virus/spyware), but for now, I realize that what the “Baals and Baal worshipers” of this age need, considering that Zeitgeist by definition means something in the order of “Spirit of this age or era”, is a spiritual “showdown” so to speak in the order of Elijah as shown in 1 Kings 18, to get a response like that in verse 39. So, I am off to become like Elijah, if that were possible, or David to slay a giant… become strong in the true God and know His word, so that like Jesus, I can tell Satan – It is written!!! And “get thee behind me Satan!!!. Like the war in Iraq and for all intents and purposes, around the world – the war on terror, it can not only be defeated by force, but by God’s spirit, because this isn’t just a physical war but a spiritual war, and it must meet its match. I just hope that I can make it through boot camp.

    Well, this is all for now, till I come up with more on this very important topic as a whole.

  37. Donny,

    I have posted the second of my three part review of the movie. Again an MP3 is also available.

    Elgin

  38. Donny,

    I have posted the second of my three part review of the movie. Again an MP3 is also available.

    Elgin

  39. Elgin,

    You may find it interesting to know that the video clip presented here was based entirely on the writings of a woman known as Acharya S. Here’s her website:

    http://www.truthbeknown.com/

    Many have claimed she uses a fact here and there, combined with a bunch of conclusions she’s come to on her own and facts she’s made up herself. Anyone can make statements and label them as fact.

    Here’s the Wikipedia article on Acharya S:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharya_S

  40. Elgin,

    You may find it interesting to know that the video clip presented here was based entirely on the writings of a woman known as Acharya S. Here’s her website:

    http://www.truthbeknown.com/

    Many have claimed she uses a fact here and there, combined with a bunch of conclusions she’s come to on her own and facts she’s made up herself. Anyone can make statements and label them as fact.

    Here’s the Wikipedia article on Acharya S:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharya_S

  41. Donny,

    I have posted the last of my three last review of the movie. Again an MP3 is also available. Let me know if you have any questions or comments.

    Elgin

  42. Donny,

    I have posted the last of my three last review of the movie. Again an MP3 is also available. Let me know if you have any questions or comments.

    Elgin

  43. Wow. I loved reading all the posts about this travesty of a movie. I love finding intelligent Christians who aren’t afraid to confront the spirit of the Antichrist in whatever form it manifests. I especially enjoyed the insightful modern parable/analogy of computer viruses to the wiles of saten the deciever.

    I’ll definitely be stopping by this blog again!

  44. Wow. I loved reading all the posts about this travesty of a movie. I love finding intelligent Christians who aren’t afraid to confront the spirit of the Antichrist in whatever form it manifests. I especially enjoyed the insightful modern parable/analogy of computer viruses to the wiles of saten the deciever.

    I’ll definitely be stopping by this blog again!

  45. Hi Donny,

    Man, this information is just jaw dropping! I’ve read before that a lot of the specifics regarding the life and death of Jesus Christ can be found with many gods and mythic heroes that came before him. But boy, are the details astounding! I don’t care much about people frustrated with Christianity (although I can understand) wanting to prove that the Bible is not ‘the Truth’, but this documentary is just explaining how we got where we are with Christianity being a major religion. This is só very interesting! You call this ‘clearly anti-Christianity’, but I disagree. It’s more like someone is presenting you with some things you didn’t know, after which you can’t help but put 1 and 1 together and know that if this is all true—and of course anyone can research this, there’s even a link to the list of consulted sources next to the video, although it seems to be dead now—you now know where Christianity came from and thus that it can’t be ‘the universal truth’. Plus that the Bible can’t be trusted as the ultimate truth. Of course when you’re a Christian, this might seem like an ‘attack’ on your personal beliefsystem. The funny thing is, the one attacking you is your own common sense.

    I first got to your site just after your conversion. Not long before then I had read Neale Donald Walsch’s first Conversations with God book, which impressed me quite a lot because I was constantly like ‘O men, THIS is exactly what I belíeve! It makes complete sense!’ After reading that book I realized that if this was indeed what I believed, I was not a Christian anymore. I had been raised as a Christian and had been very serious about seeking god’s will since I was a child, but somewhere in my late teens, around my 16th or 17th, I started to alienate from church and the Christian community. When I finally realized I was not a Christian anymore, I was 23. It was only then that I first started to read ‘outside of’ christianity. At first this included many websites and books about christianity and why it is ‘false’. By the way, still before that I had started to read the Bible again and was struck by how horrible this JHWH was and how he was so NOT like the god most Christians believe in. Anyway, when I first got to your site via XXXChurch—O yes my internet subscription came with a free porn addiction, and christianity didn’t really help me quit it, providing me with a feeling of guilt and all. XXXChurch is cool though, got to love the work they do!—I had just had that phase of reading about christianity and wondering why no one had ever told me these things and instead encouraged me to just blindly believe (by saying movies and books like Zeitgeist are ‘from the devil’, for example). Imagine how surprised I was that you, who loved to confront Christians with inconsistencies in the Bible and in their teachings—as you said yourself and was confirmed by me by reading your old blog which was still online then—found your way back to Christianity.

    I don’t think there are Christians that have any real answers to information like this. It creates a conflict between the believer and the logical thinker in you. You can either dismiss the information by telling yourself these are lies from the devil et cetera, or you can start investigating if it’s true what the author of the movie claims and find your own conclusions. This takes an open mind and you might need to be willing to let go of ideas you’ve long believed to be true, ideas which form the basis of your view on life.

    Anyway, it’s not that if Christ didn’t exist, Christianity is worthless. Lots of people receive great joy and peace from their Christian faith, feel inspired by it to be good to and help others and/or achieve spiritual awareness through it. It’s just a shame that too many people that feel like they should control other peoples’ lives have joined Christianity.

    Thanks again for sharing this link with us, I found it to be very, very interesting! Especially the part about the position of the solar system and the ages et cetera. It’s exciting information. I was sort of planning to familiarize myself a bit with astrology and what do you know, a first piece of information appears. Don’t you just love how God / The Universe works? 🙂

    ps Didn’t read the other comments as I wanted to react to your initial post and the movie first without being distracted by everything said after that.

  46. Hi Donny,

    Man, this information is just jaw dropping! I’ve read before that a lot of the specifics regarding the life and death of Jesus Christ can be found with many gods and mythic heroes that came before him. But boy, are the details astounding! I don’t care much about people frustrated with Christianity (although I can understand) wanting to prove that the Bible is not ‘the Truth’, but this documentary is just explaining how we got where we are with Christianity being a major religion. This is só very interesting! You call this ‘clearly anti-Christianity’, but I disagree. It’s more like someone is presenting you with some things you didn’t know, after which you can’t help but put 1 and 1 together and know that if this is all true—and of course anyone can research this, there’s even a link to the list of consulted sources next to the video, although it seems to be dead now—you now know where Christianity came from and thus that it can’t be ‘the universal truth’. Plus that the Bible can’t be trusted as the ultimate truth. Of course when you’re a Christian, this might seem like an ‘attack’ on your personal beliefsystem. The funny thing is, the one attacking you is your own common sense.

    I first got to your site just after your conversion. Not long before then I had read Neale Donald Walsch’s first Conversations with God book, which impressed me quite a lot because I was constantly like ‘O men, THIS is exactly what I belíeve! It makes complete sense!’ After reading that book I realized that if this was indeed what I believed, I was not a Christian anymore. I had been raised as a Christian and had been very serious about seeking god’s will since I was a child, but somewhere in my late teens, around my 16th or 17th, I started to alienate from church and the Christian community. When I finally realized I was not a Christian anymore, I was 23. It was only then that I first started to read ‘outside of’ christianity. At first this included many websites and books about christianity and why it is ‘false’. By the way, still before that I had started to read the Bible again and was struck by how horrible this JHWH was and how he was so NOT like the god most Christians believe in. Anyway, when I first got to your site via XXXChurch—O yes my internet subscription came with a free porn addiction, and christianity didn’t really help me quit it, providing me with a feeling of guilt and all. XXXChurch is cool though, got to love the work they do!—I had just had that phase of reading about christianity and wondering why no one had ever told me these things and instead encouraged me to just blindly believe (by saying movies and books like Zeitgeist are ‘from the devil’, for example). Imagine how surprised I was that you, who loved to confront Christians with inconsistencies in the Bible and in their teachings—as you said yourself and was confirmed by me by reading your old blog which was still online then—found your way back to Christianity.

    I don’t think there are Christians that have any real answers to information like this. It creates a conflict between the believer and the logical thinker in you. You can either dismiss the information by telling yourself these are lies from the devil et cetera, or you can start investigating if it’s true what the author of the movie claims and find your own conclusions. This takes an open mind and you might need to be willing to let go of ideas you’ve long believed to be true, ideas which form the basis of your view on life.

    Anyway, it’s not that if Christ didn’t exist, Christianity is worthless. Lots of people receive great joy and peace from their Christian faith, feel inspired by it to be good to and help others and/or achieve spiritual awareness through it. It’s just a shame that too many people that feel like they should control other peoples’ lives have joined Christianity.

    Thanks again for sharing this link with us, I found it to be very, very interesting! Especially the part about the position of the solar system and the ages et cetera. It’s exciting information. I was sort of planning to familiarize myself a bit with astrology and what do you know, a first piece of information appears. Don’t you just love how God / The Universe works? 🙂

    ps Didn’t read the other comments as I wanted to react to your initial post and the movie first without being distracted by everything said after that.

  47. So I read the comments now. Some good points were made. As I understand from this and other sites, the video isn’t really subjective, but more like using the bits of information that suit the idea the maker(s) want to convey. And although I said ‘if this is true’ I for myself wanted to believe it very much, thus sort of did, before I had even started my research.

    Still there’s some interesting ideas in the video and I will digg deeper into this. As for faith, I believe in What You Believe Is What You Get. So what you believe in is manifested in your life.

    Another thing, I wrote:
    “It’s just a shame that too many people that feel like they should control other peoples’ lives have joined Christianity.”

    Although it IS, it’s not like such people can’t be found in other religions and belief systems. Indeed, there are a lot of people out there pushing their views very hard. I feel sorry for some people that spent their entire life writing and talking about how Christianity is false. They must be só frustrated! I’ve had a period of time where I, for myself, discovered Christianity didn’t work for me and I found it not to be true. I’ve been frustrated with Christianity for a while, but that was only for a period of time. I got over it and use my energy for better things than debating over who’s world view is the bestest 😉

    Having said that, I’d better stop spending more time writing here, hehe!

  48. So I read the comments now. Some good points were made. As I understand from this and other sites, the video isn’t really subjective, but more like using the bits of information that suit the idea the maker(s) want to convey. And although I said ‘if this is true’ I for myself wanted to believe it very much, thus sort of did, before I had even started my research.

    Still there’s some interesting ideas in the video and I will digg deeper into this. As for faith, I believe in What You Believe Is What You Get. So what you believe in is manifested in your life.

    Another thing, I wrote:
    “It’s just a shame that too many people that feel like they should control other peoples’ lives have joined Christianity.”

    Although it IS, it’s not like such people can’t be found in other religions and belief systems. Indeed, there are a lot of people out there pushing their views very hard. I feel sorry for some people that spent their entire life writing and talking about how Christianity is false. They must be só frustrated! I’ve had a period of time where I, for myself, discovered Christianity didn’t work for me and I found it not to be true. I’ve been frustrated with Christianity for a while, but that was only for a period of time. I got over it and use my energy for better things than debating over who’s world view is the bestest 😉

    Having said that, I’d better stop spending more time writing here, hehe!

  49. Donny,

    You consistently BASH Christians and always say its them who are the haters but I beg to differ. The “hater” is always the one doing the bashing. The lover is the one telling the truth. And if you hate christians so much….just what exactly are you?

  50. Donny,

    You consistently BASH Christians and always say its them who are the haters but I beg to differ. The “hater” is always the one doing the bashing. The lover is the one telling the truth. And if you hate christians so much….just what exactly are you?

  51. Abbey,

    I’m not bashing Christians. I am one. I challenge us to handle others with love, rather than judgmentalism. I think we could all use a good reading of the book of Romans. The entire book, not just one scripture or the other. Reading it in its entirety gives the context of Paul’s message. In fact, I just listened to the entire book on my walk this morning. I have it on my iPhone as an Audiobook from Zondervan’s “The Bible Experience” series. Click here to buy it for $3.95 through iTunes. It only takes an hour and 6 minutes to listen to the whole thing. Once you’ve done so, let’s talk about your opinions on it.

    – Donny –

  52. Abbey,

    I’m not bashing Christians. I am one. I challenge us to handle others with love, rather than judgmentalism. I think we could all use a good reading of the book of Romans. The entire book, not just one scripture or the other. Reading it in its entirety gives the context of Paul’s message. In fact, I just listened to the entire book on my walk this morning. I have it on my iPhone as an Audiobook from Zondervan’s “The Bible Experience” series. Click here to buy it for $3.95 through iTunes. It only takes an hour and 6 minutes to listen to the whole thing. Once you’ve done so, let’s talk about your opinions on it.

    – Donny –

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