Donny's Ramblings

The Vice Presidential Debate

70 Comments

Sarah Palin didn’t do as poorly as I’d supposed she would do.  She didn’t fall apart.  She didn’t ramble incoherently as she did in her recent interview with Katie Couric.  So when I say, “She did well,” I mean, “She did well in comparison to what I expected her to do.”

Joe Klein’s article for Time online really sums up the evening quite nicely:  Palin Was Fine, But This Debate Was No Contest.  Read that article and tell me what you think.

I watched the debate at my friend John’s house.  John’s not really all that interested in politics, but he indulged my desire to see what the VP candidates had to say.  We watched Biden and Palin banter back and forth as we munched on a delicious meal prepared by John’s girlfriend. Before I had a chance to express my opinions, John was the first to say, “He’s kicking her ass!”

At the beginning, Palin looked like a deer in headlights.  She loosened up as time went on, and was entertaining to watch.  But let’s face it:  John is right… Biden kicked her butt.  Only the most stubborn, die hard Republicans will claim otherwise.  Her personal victory was in the fact that she didn’t crumple into a pile of nerves.  As Joe Klein said, “She displayed an ability, for the first time since her convention speech, to repeat with a fair amount of credibility, the formulations that her handlers had given her.”  That was very obvious.

She avoided questions to which she didn’t have answers, going off in a totally different direction than what was asked. She used plenty of “fluff” that makes a person like her, but she didn’t really provide any meat. She said absolutely nothing to persuade me that she’s ready to step in as President should that be necessary. But she did reaffirm that she’s a regular, everyday person just like the rest of us. She’s quite likable, and I’d have a beer with her while watching NFL football, but I’d still have to say she’s simply not ready for the VP position.

I have to honestly admit this:  I have been looking for reasons to change my vote to the Republican ticket.  As I converse with Christians around the country, there are and will be many who think it’s downright sinful to vote for Obama.  It would be much easier to say, “I’ve changed my mind and am voting for McCain/Palin because of __________.”   But the truth of the matter is that I have yet to see anything from those two that changes my opinions. I am still a Christian and former Republican-Ticket voter who will be punching my ballot for Obama/Biden.

What say you?

If you didn’t have a chance to see the debate, here it is in full (1 Hour, 32 Minutes):

70 thoughts on “The Vice Presidential Debate

  1. While the debate made interesting political sport, Palin is simply in no way ready to lead the country. Being a heartbeat away from the highest office in the land is not something you simply cram for. That being said, I think she is likable and I bet she’d be a great neighbor.

  2. While the debate made interesting political sport, Palin is simply in no way ready to lead the country. Being a heartbeat away from the highest office in the land is not something you simply cram for. That being said, I think she is likable and I bet she’d be a great neighbor.

  3. You say Biden kicked her butt and that only die-hard Republicans will claim otherwise.

    But I’m not a die-hard Republican and I claim otherwise. I do not think he “won” hands down.

    I’m still not saying that I think she’s president material. But I’m still not voting for Obama. We’ll see…

    I am truly disappointed with my choices here. I thought about not voting, but then realized it may just be better to go out and vote against Obama. I still haven’t made up my mind.

  4. You say Biden kicked her butt and that only die-hard Republicans will claim otherwise.

    But I’m not a die-hard Republican and I claim otherwise. I do not think he “won” hands down.

    I’m still not saying that I think she’s president material. But I’m still not voting for Obama. We’ll see…

    I am truly disappointed with my choices here. I thought about not voting, but then realized it may just be better to go out and vote against Obama. I still haven’t made up my mind.

  5. It’s interesting that people judge whether or not a person is ready or able to lead (country or otherwise) based on if they can kick their opponents ass in a debate. That’s not leadership people, that’s gift of a quick tongue. I grew up in a family of incredible debaters and the best leader is not the one that wins the debate. Fact check the debate. They both had misleading answers and accusations. I think Biden was much more purposeful in his. Look at his track record. He was caught plagiarizing in law school, and in the 1988 presidential race for the democrats he plagiarized his speech so badly that he had to drop from the race in embarrassment. He flat out lies to make himself look better. reminds me of many preachers i know, though. So maybe he is the best leader to be one heartbeat away.

  6. It’s interesting that people judge whether or not a person is ready or able to lead (country or otherwise) based on if they can kick their opponents ass in a debate. That’s not leadership people, that’s gift of a quick tongue. I grew up in a family of incredible debaters and the best leader is not the one that wins the debate. Fact check the debate. They both had misleading answers and accusations. I think Biden was much more purposeful in his. Look at his track record. He was caught plagiarizing in law school, and in the 1988 presidential race for the democrats he plagiarized his speech so badly that he had to drop from the race in embarrassment. He flat out lies to make himself look better. reminds me of many preachers i know, though. So maybe he is the best leader to be one heartbeat away.

  7. The debate was a draw at best. Biden certainly didn’t blow away. A more accurate representation would be that it was the Sarah Palin show featuring Biden. She dominated in connecting with average people. Biden was put on the defensive pretty much the whole night. Palin killed Biden on energy issues as well. Very interesting to see what both tickets have to say about same sex marriage.

  8. The debate was a draw at best. Biden certainly didn’t blow away. A more accurate representation would be that it was the Sarah Palin show featuring Biden. She dominated in connecting with average people. Biden was put on the defensive pretty much the whole night. Palin killed Biden on energy issues as well. Very interesting to see what both tickets have to say about same sex marriage.

  9. I thought Biden performed well also as did Palin. The problem is all Biden could talk about was Bush. Well yes Bush made some big mistakes but to try to say McCain is Bush is ridiculous. Also, Biden flat out lied on several occasions and even stooped to pull out the trump card of his wife being killed again. Which from my prior post he has used to exagerate and i didnt sense it was genuine. The truth is if what Biden had said was true absolutely he won the debate the problem is when you start looking at what he actually said most of it is lies. Thats the problem with Biden and Obama they dont let the truth get in the way of a good story. To me Donny if what Biden said about it being the republicans fault on fannie/freddie and if it were true that they were going to cut taxes for the middle class then I would be on their side to. But the reality is if you do any fact finding you find that the top people running fannie/freddie have been always democrats, those who blocked legislation to regulate them were democrats, those who took the most campaign money from them were democrats. Yet we are to believe that it was McCain’s fault when he is the one and other republicans who spoke out two years ago? Another perfect example Biden tried to say their tax plan gave tax breaks to big oil companies for 4 billion and was only directed at oil companies. That is a blatant lie no such plan has McCain said. And if the past is a predictor of the future as Biden kept saying the one person who has raised taxes on the oil companies and gave money back is Palin. Where everyone goes wrong is looking at who gives the better speach etc without checking the facts. Biden lied about what general said, he lied about kissenger and what they said about communicating and mis-characterized it to sound as if McCain wouldnt try diplomacy which he would just not at the presidential level which is actually what most of those people he quoted have said and done. To me Palin and McCain need to just flat out start calling a spade a spade and prove they are lying. As Palin said the pundits will start fact checking, yet most of it never gets pointed out. They need to start pointing it out. Ultimately if your looking for a reason to not vote Obama/Biden its because they are not trust worthy and have a history of lying which is well documented long before the race. In addition McCain and Palin for the most part have a pretty good record of being pretty honest. Besides, I am not sure which Biden to believe the one who said Hillary was a better choice which means Obama made a mistake or the one who said Obama was wrong and not qualified to be President, or the one who agreed with McCain until about the time he won the nomination.

  10. I thought Biden performed well also as did Palin. The problem is all Biden could talk about was Bush. Well yes Bush made some big mistakes but to try to say McCain is Bush is ridiculous. Also, Biden flat out lied on several occasions and even stooped to pull out the trump card of his wife being killed again. Which from my prior post he has used to exagerate and i didnt sense it was genuine. The truth is if what Biden had said was true absolutely he won the debate the problem is when you start looking at what he actually said most of it is lies. Thats the problem with Biden and Obama they dont let the truth get in the way of a good story. To me Donny if what Biden said about it being the republicans fault on fannie/freddie and if it were true that they were going to cut taxes for the middle class then I would be on their side to. But the reality is if you do any fact finding you find that the top people running fannie/freddie have been always democrats, those who blocked legislation to regulate them were democrats, those who took the most campaign money from them were democrats. Yet we are to believe that it was McCain’s fault when he is the one and other republicans who spoke out two years ago? Another perfect example Biden tried to say their tax plan gave tax breaks to big oil companies for 4 billion and was only directed at oil companies. That is a blatant lie no such plan has McCain said. And if the past is a predictor of the future as Biden kept saying the one person who has raised taxes on the oil companies and gave money back is Palin. Where everyone goes wrong is looking at who gives the better speach etc without checking the facts. Biden lied about what general said, he lied about kissenger and what they said about communicating and mis-characterized it to sound as if McCain wouldnt try diplomacy which he would just not at the presidential level which is actually what most of those people he quoted have said and done. To me Palin and McCain need to just flat out start calling a spade a spade and prove they are lying. As Palin said the pundits will start fact checking, yet most of it never gets pointed out. They need to start pointing it out. Ultimately if your looking for a reason to not vote Obama/Biden its because they are not trust worthy and have a history of lying which is well documented long before the race. In addition McCain and Palin for the most part have a pretty good record of being pretty honest. Besides, I am not sure which Biden to believe the one who said Hillary was a better choice which means Obama made a mistake or the one who said Obama was wrong and not qualified to be President, or the one who agreed with McCain until about the time he won the nomination.

  11. considering that all Biden does is debate on the Senate floor for the past 35 years.. and Palin has been in the national spotlight for 5 weeks now..

    I would say she held her own against him..

    the newbie and the veteran.. The newbie did good.

  12. considering that all Biden does is debate on the Senate floor for the past 35 years.. and Palin has been in the national spotlight for 5 weeks now..

    I would say she held her own against him..

    the newbie and the veteran.. The newbie did good.

  13. The misstatements of both candidates are laid out here:

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

    Dalen, I’m definitely not saying I base who is “ready” on how they debate. I was looking for a reason to turn away from my prior perceptions of Palin. Have you watched her interviews? She has no clue when it comes to important issues. This debate showed that she was well prepared during her “debate boot camp” at McCain’s place these past few days, but she’s still the same clueless person she was before, and definitely isn’t ready to lead.

  14. The misstatements of both candidates are laid out here:

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_biden-palin_debate.html

    Dalen, I’m definitely not saying I base who is “ready” on how they debate. I was looking for a reason to turn away from my prior perceptions of Palin. Have you watched her interviews? She has no clue when it comes to important issues. This debate showed that she was well prepared during her “debate boot camp” at McCain’s place these past few days, but she’s still the same clueless person she was before, and definitely isn’t ready to lead.

  15. DT said:

    The problem is all Biden could talk about was Bush. Well yes Bush made some big mistakes but to try to say McCain is Bush is ridiculous.

    By his own admission, McCain voted with Bush more than 90% of the time. Last night Biden did an effective job driving the point home that McCain and Bush are virtually identical on the issues that matter to the general population.

  16. DT said:

    The problem is all Biden could talk about was Bush. Well yes Bush made some big mistakes but to try to say McCain is Bush is ridiculous.

    By his own admission, McCain voted with Bush more than 90% of the time. Last night Biden did an effective job driving the point home that McCain and Bush are virtually identical on the issues that matter to the general population.

  17. Donny,
    Palin is not as informed as I’d prefer. You have a point there. Please point out how many V.P.’s in the history of our sweet country came in as the best person to lead? How many carried two terms or even one when running for president after their former running mate carried two terms. I don’t think it’s many. Bush senior won because of Reagan. Most VP’s are chosen to compliment. Palin has spent most of her time concentrating on Alaska. She’ll catch on. As far as the Presidential candidates are concerned, I think McCain in more trustworthy. I get a funky vibe from Obama. I actually want to like him for Pres., but I gotta go with my gut.

  18. Donny,
    Palin is not as informed as I’d prefer. You have a point there. Please point out how many V.P.’s in the history of our sweet country came in as the best person to lead? How many carried two terms or even one when running for president after their former running mate carried two terms. I don’t think it’s many. Bush senior won because of Reagan. Most VP’s are chosen to compliment. Palin has spent most of her time concentrating on Alaska. She’ll catch on. As far as the Presidential candidates are concerned, I think McCain in more trustworthy. I get a funky vibe from Obama. I actually want to like him for Pres., but I gotta go with my gut.

  19. Oh, by the way. Hands down Ronald Reagan was the best ever. I shed tears when he died. I don’t shed tears often.

  20. Oh, by the way. Hands down Ronald Reagan was the best ever. I shed tears when he died. I don’t shed tears often.

  21. “Come on Joe…” After watching the debate, seeing Palin duck questions and straight up tell us that she was not going to answer the questions all I could do is wonder about her competence. While she was able to perform, by replying to the questions she just seemed incompetent. I asked my wife, “God forbid, but what if McCain had a stroke on day one?” I am not willing to take the risk.

  22. “Come on Joe…” After watching the debate, seeing Palin duck questions and straight up tell us that she was not going to answer the questions all I could do is wonder about her competence. While she was able to perform, by replying to the questions she just seemed incompetent. I asked my wife, “God forbid, but what if McCain had a stroke on day one?” I am not willing to take the risk.

  23. Dalen,

    Speaking of Reagan… those worried about Obama raising taxes should think back to those days, as Obama’s plan is to simply return tax rates to what they were in the Reagan days.

  24. Dalen,

    Speaking of Reagan… those worried about Obama raising taxes should think back to those days, as Obama’s plan is to simply return tax rates to what they were in the Reagan days.

  25. Nice spin. The house was controlled by dems and Reagan had to fight hard to get far, but I have no problem with most of that, though.

  26. Nice spin. The house was controlled by dems and Reagan had to fight hard to get far, but I have no problem with most of that, though.

  27. One of the wonderful things about our political system is that one clusterfuck has a difficult time sinking the whole ship. I will not be chicken little if Obama is voted in, and to that end niether should anybody doubting Palin’s leadership ability succumb to the spirit of fear to the truly unknown. I still have not seen enough of Palin to really know what to think.

  28. One of the wonderful things about our political system is that one clusterfuck has a difficult time sinking the whole ship. I will not be chicken little if Obama is voted in, and to that end niether should anybody doubting Palin’s leadership ability succumb to the spirit of fear to the truly unknown. I still have not seen enough of Palin to really know what to think.

  29. What is frightening…is that if McCain was elected…PALIN is one 72- year old heart beat, or lack there of, from being President.

    Is that not a tad bit alarming….

    One final observation… that has nothing to do with the election….

    Has anyone ever seen Mr Palin hold their son. Ive seen both daughters hold the boy…but the dad seems to have a total aversion to holding or caring for the kid…

    Interesting.

  30. What is frightening…is that if McCain was elected…PALIN is one 72- year old heart beat, or lack there of, from being President.

    Is that not a tad bit alarming….

    One final observation… that has nothing to do with the election….

    Has anyone ever seen Mr Palin hold their son. Ive seen both daughters hold the boy…but the dad seems to have a total aversion to holding or caring for the kid…

    Interesting.

  31. This heartbeat thing is relative to genetics. Two of my foster brothers who happen to be brothers both had heart trouble at 40. Their old man had the same. McCain’s mother is 92 and sharp. He could probably do 2 terms without a problem.

  32. This heartbeat thing is relative to genetics. Two of my foster brothers who happen to be brothers both had heart trouble at 40. Their old man had the same. McCain’s mother is 92 and sharp. He could probably do 2 terms without a problem.

  33. Come on, Donnie.. be honest.

    say it outright.. even if Sarah repeated verbatim the US Constitution and all the amendments, you would still find some reason to hate her.. say that it’s rote memorization..

    and pay no attention to her record of her actions while Gov. of Alaska.

    the same way you pay no attention to the actions of Barack..
    but he gives a good speech.. that’s what matters.. polished speeches..

    i’m glad you are not in my state to cancel out my vote.

  34. Come on, Donnie.. be honest.

    say it outright.. even if Sarah repeated verbatim the US Constitution and all the amendments, you would still find some reason to hate her.. say that it’s rote memorization..

    and pay no attention to her record of her actions while Gov. of Alaska.

    the same way you pay no attention to the actions of Barack..
    but he gives a good speech.. that’s what matters.. polished speeches..

    i’m glad you are not in my state to cancel out my vote.

  35. Here is where you see what happens when the rules are skewed to give one opponent an unfair advantage. In spite of the fact that Biden was forced to come to center ring to fight he did well, though it was as though his arms were tied behind his back.

    http://jmerrillwhite.wordpress.com/

  36. Here is where you see what happens when the rules are skewed to give one opponent an unfair advantage. In spite of the fact that Biden was forced to come to center ring to fight he did well, though it was as though his arms were tied behind his back.

    http://jmerrillwhite.wordpress.com/

  37. Dave,

    I am not going to “just settle” for the sake of settling. Sarah Palin is flat out unqualified. It’s quite obvious. Why do you so adamantly deny what dozens of columnists and millions of people can clearly see is true? Why is it so hard to admit she’s simply out of her league?

  38. Dave,

    I am not going to “just settle” for the sake of settling. Sarah Palin is flat out unqualified. It’s quite obvious. Why do you so adamantly deny what dozens of columnists and millions of people can clearly see is true? Why is it so hard to admit she’s simply out of her league?

  39. Donny, from what reference can you qualify a statement like “Sarah Palin is flat out unqualified.” Have you personally interviewed her? It’s true, she has not fared well with eloquent speech (neither did Moses) , or knowing details of some important current events. We still don’t fully know her abilities. She obviously has done a pretty damn good job in an active way as gov. That should speak for something. She at least not Dan Quail. LOL

  40. Donny, from what reference can you qualify a statement like “Sarah Palin is flat out unqualified.” Have you personally interviewed her? It’s true, she has not fared well with eloquent speech (neither did Moses) , or knowing details of some important current events. We still don’t fully know her abilities. She obviously has done a pretty damn good job in an active way as gov. That should speak for something. She at least not Dan Quail. LOL

  41. I would just like to point out the only reason anyone says Palin is unqualified is she didnt have polished answers on foreign policy right away and we say she has only been a governor. We seem to have short memories. Reagan was never in washington before he was elected only a governor. Bill Clinton was only a governor. In fact Dick Morris when asked about it says they had to prep and prep Bill Clinton in the beginning because he wasnt well versed on foreign policy. Its not important that they have all the answers. What is important is someone who is intelligent enough to surround themselves with good people, listen to all the facts from those people and then make good decisions. Palin has proved she has good decision making skills when governing. What I fear is someone like Obama who thinks he is smarter than everyone else. That is dangerous. Much more dangerous than someone who hasnt had time to study everything. Think about it Obama/Biden have been campaigning and researching their answers for years. I will take an everyday women with an 85% approval rate in her state as Governor and a war veteran from the naval academy over 2 ivy league lawyers anyday.

  42. I would just like to point out the only reason anyone says Palin is unqualified is she didnt have polished answers on foreign policy right away and we say she has only been a governor. We seem to have short memories. Reagan was never in washington before he was elected only a governor. Bill Clinton was only a governor. In fact Dick Morris when asked about it says they had to prep and prep Bill Clinton in the beginning because he wasnt well versed on foreign policy. Its not important that they have all the answers. What is important is someone who is intelligent enough to surround themselves with good people, listen to all the facts from those people and then make good decisions. Palin has proved she has good decision making skills when governing. What I fear is someone like Obama who thinks he is smarter than everyone else. That is dangerous. Much more dangerous than someone who hasnt had time to study everything. Think about it Obama/Biden have been campaigning and researching their answers for years. I will take an everyday women with an 85% approval rate in her state as Governor and a war veteran from the naval academy over 2 ivy league lawyers anyday.

  43. Neither of them said anything that seemed too new to me. Seems like the same old rhetoric. But I think Palin was very right in saying how important it is to be energy independent. I also think she was right that a Health Care System run by the federal government would be a disaster. Besides, she’s a mom with 5 kids, she’s probably dealt with economic crisis, energy crisis, health care crisis, defense and foreign policy (i.e. teenagers) If that doesn’t qualify her what does? 🙂 Yes, I think you are little crazy to vote for Obama but I don’t think God will strike you dead if you do. I’m not so sure that the other side would offer a whole lot of change either. Isn’t there a good Independent to vote for?

  44. Neither of them said anything that seemed too new to me. Seems like the same old rhetoric. But I think Palin was very right in saying how important it is to be energy independent. I also think she was right that a Health Care System run by the federal government would be a disaster. Besides, she’s a mom with 5 kids, she’s probably dealt with economic crisis, energy crisis, health care crisis, defense and foreign policy (i.e. teenagers) If that doesn’t qualify her what does? 🙂 Yes, I think you are little crazy to vote for Obama but I don’t think God will strike you dead if you do. I’m not so sure that the other side would offer a whole lot of change either. Isn’t there a good Independent to vote for?

  45. Donny..

    you said something about you hoping that barack would inspire change in people.. the man has never changed a thing in his life.. Chicago is the same ‘dead men get out to vote mulitple times’ place.. hell, it’s a joke now the corruption there.. The Southside is about the same level of violence as Baghdad in Iraq..

    Show me the Change that Barack has brought around.. I have looked and not seen anything the man has done except give speeches..

    Like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxJ7t3U3TDg

  46. Donny..

    you said something about you hoping that barack would inspire change in people.. the man has never changed a thing in his life.. Chicago is the same ‘dead men get out to vote mulitple times’ place.. hell, it’s a joke now the corruption there.. The Southside is about the same level of violence as Baghdad in Iraq..

    Show me the Change that Barack has brought around.. I have looked and not seen anything the man has done except give speeches..

    Like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxJ7t3U3TDg

  47. sorry, that above link was something else Obama was speaking about.

    Try this one:

    as far as the ‘Bridge to Nowhere’, yes she was for it before she was against it..

    Much the same way you use to be for Porn and now you are against it.

    Paul the Apostle was for killing Christians before he became one.

  48. sorry, that above link was something else Obama was speaking about.

    Try this one:

    as far as the ‘Bridge to Nowhere’, yes she was for it before she was against it..

    Much the same way you use to be for Porn and now you are against it.

    Paul the Apostle was for killing Christians before he became one.

  49. those two speeches by Obama reminds me of this speech as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdM8PDu6VMg

  50. those two speeches by Obama reminds me of this speech as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdM8PDu6VMg

  51. I found someone who is describing the ‘Hope’ and ‘Change’ Barack wants..

    they are big supporters of him.

    http://www.cpusa.org/article/view/975/

  52. I found someone who is describing the ‘Hope’ and ‘Change’ Barack wants..

    they are big supporters of him.

    http://www.cpusa.org/article/view/975/

  53. lets remember this is not a race between obama and palin. its a race between obama and mccain. you can be blase about the palin/biden debate but i urge you to watch the first full mccain/ obama debate. mccain owned obama on that one. it may give you perspective on the WHOLE PICTURE. lets also remember that obama has the most liberal voting record in the senate.

    so it boils down to this:

    is mccain’s iraq plan really that far off? enough for you to vote for obama and ALL of the baggage that comes with that? if obama gets elected hes going to owe favors to some people out there. God knows who he gets on his cabinet. maybe pelosi or reid. again, he has the most liberal voting record in the entire senate. so you may take the gamble that he may or may not solve iraq but what about everything else? mccain wants to cut spending in washington and his record shows that he doesnt have a problem doing that. hes definitely got more experience in foreign relations…more experience when it comes to the military. even his web site says he plans on overturning roe v wade. obama can you tell you all he wants that he is a christian but his deeds in no way distinguish him from a secularist. nothing he stands for is exclusively indicative of him being a christian.

  54. lets remember this is not a race between obama and palin. its a race between obama and mccain. you can be blase about the palin/biden debate but i urge you to watch the first full mccain/ obama debate. mccain owned obama on that one. it may give you perspective on the WHOLE PICTURE. lets also remember that obama has the most liberal voting record in the senate.

    so it boils down to this:

    is mccain’s iraq plan really that far off? enough for you to vote for obama and ALL of the baggage that comes with that? if obama gets elected hes going to owe favors to some people out there. God knows who he gets on his cabinet. maybe pelosi or reid. again, he has the most liberal voting record in the entire senate. so you may take the gamble that he may or may not solve iraq but what about everything else? mccain wants to cut spending in washington and his record shows that he doesnt have a problem doing that. hes definitely got more experience in foreign relations…more experience when it comes to the military. even his web site says he plans on overturning roe v wade. obama can you tell you all he wants that he is a christian but his deeds in no way distinguish him from a secularist. nothing he stands for is exclusively indicative of him being a christian.

  55. I saw a voter registration table in front of the Dollar Tree with a big sign for OBAMA. I’m sorry but it sort of gave me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.
    I’m not crazy about McCain, but something is not right about Obama and I know that whoever is president can’t fix all our massive problems in this country, but I would feel safer with McCain as president (and I know Sarah would at least be praying for wisdom from the One who knows all things.)

  56. I saw a voter registration table in front of the Dollar Tree with a big sign for OBAMA. I’m sorry but it sort of gave me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.
    I’m not crazy about McCain, but something is not right about Obama and I know that whoever is president can’t fix all our massive problems in this country, but I would feel safer with McCain as president (and I know Sarah would at least be praying for wisdom from the One who knows all things.)

  57. It brings angst to my soul to know the youth of this country don’t have a clue about the Nazis or even some about the Communists because they weren’t there! They scare me with their ignorance and gullibility to listen to words rather than deeds.

    God help us! We need Your wisdom, strength, courage, and peace!!

  58. It brings angst to my soul to know the youth of this country don’t have a clue about the Nazis or even some about the Communists because they weren’t there! They scare me with their ignorance and gullibility to listen to words rather than deeds.

    God help us! We need Your wisdom, strength, courage, and peace!!

  59. Chris wrote:

    as far as the ‘Bridge to Nowhere’, yes she was for it before she was against it..

    Much the same way you use to be for Porn and now you are against it.

    Not at ALL the same… she was for it up until it was apparent that Congress was not going to approve it. Then she was against it. It was a lost case, and it’s much more politically advantageous to be against such a thing when it becomes apparent it’s not gonna happen anyway.

    Jean wrote:

    They scare me with their ignorance and gullibility to listen to words rather than deeds.

    That’s kinda how I feel when I see the Republican Party able to buy the Christian vote with their words rather than deeds. Just look at the last 8 years! Bush talked well enough to get the vote twice, but he is only 2 points above the all time low for approval rating. Yep, he’s almost the worst President in History.

    Yep, I’m blown away that Christians just overwhelmingly vote Republican. The most common reason is the abortion issue, yet as I’ve said over and over again, simply paying attention to History shows that it was overwhelmingly Republican appointed Supreme Court Justices that ruled on Roe V Wade (in that historic ruling, 6 out of the 9 Justices were Republican appointed). Furthermore, HOW many years have Republicans been in office since then? And have they overturned it? Nope, they have not. In fact, right now 7 out of the 9 sitting Supreme Court Justices were appointed by Republicans, so why do we think another Republican President will make any progress in that area? The fact is, the court has made a decision and likely will never overturn it. If we want abortion to cease legality we need to work on adding an amendment to our Constitution.

    I’ve heard people say that Democrat’s are socialists (but bailing out banks to the tune of $700 billion isn’t?) but if that is the case, Jesus was a socialist. Jesus advocated taking care of the poor and hungry, helping those in need. It seems to me that of the two parties we have to choose from, the Donkeys are closer to what Jesus asked us to do than are the Elephants.

    And people LOVE gossip, at least when it’s about the side that they don’t like. Take the garbage said about Obama’s Pastor, Jeremiah Wright, for example… a person I greatly respect regularly attended services at Jeremiah Wright’s church for awhile. He told me that Pastor Wright is nowhere near what the media portrays him to be. He cannot recall ever hearing an inflammatory message such as those shown all over the news now that Obama is running for Office. Of course, all it takes is once for the media to make a big gossip fest out of things.

    But to be honest, I can’t say that Jeremiah Wright’s message is all the unique. How many services have you attended over the years where Pastors have warned that God will damn America for this sin or that sin? Yet when Jeremiah Wright passionately says, “God Damn America!” we think he’s unpatriotic or, even worse, a threat to our country? I’ve never thought such things about the Pastors *I* heard preach similar messages.

    For me, what it boils down to is this:

    I’ve heard people say that Democrat’s are socialists (but bailing out banks to the tune of $700 billion isn’t?) but if that is the case, Jesus was a socialist. Jesus advocated taking care of the poor and hungry, helping those in need. It seems to me that of the two parties we have to choose from, the Donkeys are closer to what Jesus asked us to do than are the Elephants.

    After the last 8 years, I’d like to see the other side have a chance to turn things around.

  60. Chris wrote:

    as far as the ‘Bridge to Nowhere’, yes she was for it before she was against it..

    Much the same way you use to be for Porn and now you are against it.

    Not at ALL the same… she was for it up until it was apparent that Congress was not going to approve it. Then she was against it. It was a lost case, and it’s much more politically advantageous to be against such a thing when it becomes apparent it’s not gonna happen anyway.

    Jean wrote:

    They scare me with their ignorance and gullibility to listen to words rather than deeds.

    That’s kinda how I feel when I see the Republican Party able to buy the Christian vote with their words rather than deeds. Just look at the last 8 years! Bush talked well enough to get the vote twice, but he is only 2 points above the all time low for approval rating. Yep, he’s almost the worst President in History.

    Yep, I’m blown away that Christians just overwhelmingly vote Republican. The most common reason is the abortion issue, yet as I’ve said over and over again, simply paying attention to History shows that it was overwhelmingly Republican appointed Supreme Court Justices that ruled on Roe V Wade (in that historic ruling, 6 out of the 9 Justices were Republican appointed). Furthermore, HOW many years have Republicans been in office since then? And have they overturned it? Nope, they have not. In fact, right now 7 out of the 9 sitting Supreme Court Justices were appointed by Republicans, so why do we think another Republican President will make any progress in that area? The fact is, the court has made a decision and likely will never overturn it. If we want abortion to cease legality we need to work on adding an amendment to our Constitution.

    I’ve heard people say that Democrat’s are socialists (but bailing out banks to the tune of $700 billion isn’t?) but if that is the case, Jesus was a socialist. Jesus advocated taking care of the poor and hungry, helping those in need. It seems to me that of the two parties we have to choose from, the Donkeys are closer to what Jesus asked us to do than are the Elephants.

    And people LOVE gossip, at least when it’s about the side that they don’t like. Take the garbage said about Obama’s Pastor, Jeremiah Wright, for example… a person I greatly respect regularly attended services at Jeremiah Wright’s church for awhile. He told me that Pastor Wright is nowhere near what the media portrays him to be. He cannot recall ever hearing an inflammatory message such as those shown all over the news now that Obama is running for Office. Of course, all it takes is once for the media to make a big gossip fest out of things.

    But to be honest, I can’t say that Jeremiah Wright’s message is all the unique. How many services have you attended over the years where Pastors have warned that God will damn America for this sin or that sin? Yet when Jeremiah Wright passionately says, “God Damn America!” we think he’s unpatriotic or, even worse, a threat to our country? I’ve never thought such things about the Pastors *I* heard preach similar messages.

    For me, what it boils down to is this:

    I’ve heard people say that Democrat’s are socialists (but bailing out banks to the tune of $700 billion isn’t?) but if that is the case, Jesus was a socialist. Jesus advocated taking care of the poor and hungry, helping those in need. It seems to me that of the two parties we have to choose from, the Donkeys are closer to what Jesus asked us to do than are the Elephants.

    After the last 8 years, I’d like to see the other side have a chance to turn things around.

  61. John, “nothing he stands for is exclusively indicative of him being a Christian.” What in the world is that even supposed to mean — that the evidence of one being a Christian is to only stand for things that every nonChristian is against? I dare say that is not a biblical standard. And if you believe can’t see that many of the things Obama stands for are “Christian values” then I think you need to spend some more time reading the Bible.

    The 2nd most topic written about in scriptures is that of justice for the poor and oppressed. Only financial stewardship logs more space. There are over 2000 references to the justice topic. Just because you don’t hear sermons about this in the average American evangelical church (or dare I say suburban evangelical church) that does not change the word of God. In America where we Christians have often replaced the authenticity of the Gospel with our “right” to the American dream and comfort, we are often not aware of the value God places on the poor. Trying to change the education system in America, trying to change immigration law, and trying to provide health care to all are all “Christian values.” And when nonbelievers support those, it’s because we are all made in God’s image and have some recognizance of His moral truth, whether we know it or not.

    If you take the time to read Obama’s writings about his conversion experience & about his faith, it is obvious that he is sincere. You may not respect his example as a believer or share all of his theology, but it’s walking on shaky ground to say someone’s lying when they claim Christ. My understanding is that McCain has never been “known” for even claiming faith until this election season, but I would never assume the right to judge him as a nonbeliever. And heck, I think George Bush has been a HORRIBLE example of a Christ-follower, lacking practically every outward fruit of the spirit in his policies and attitude, but when I’ve heard him explain his conversion experience, I believe him. I don’t understand him, but I believe him.

    BTW Jean, excellent comments about the whole Jeremiah Wright controversy. The hypocrisy surrounding that issue was crazy. Many, many white preachers condemned the US after 911 and Katrina, saying that was God’s judgement on us — I didn’t hear anyone calling them “anti-American.”

  62. John, “nothing he stands for is exclusively indicative of him being a Christian.” What in the world is that even supposed to mean — that the evidence of one being a Christian is to only stand for things that every nonChristian is against? I dare say that is not a biblical standard. And if you believe can’t see that many of the things Obama stands for are “Christian values” then I think you need to spend some more time reading the Bible.

    The 2nd most topic written about in scriptures is that of justice for the poor and oppressed. Only financial stewardship logs more space. There are over 2000 references to the justice topic. Just because you don’t hear sermons about this in the average American evangelical church (or dare I say suburban evangelical church) that does not change the word of God. In America where we Christians have often replaced the authenticity of the Gospel with our “right” to the American dream and comfort, we are often not aware of the value God places on the poor. Trying to change the education system in America, trying to change immigration law, and trying to provide health care to all are all “Christian values.” And when nonbelievers support those, it’s because we are all made in God’s image and have some recognizance of His moral truth, whether we know it or not.

    If you take the time to read Obama’s writings about his conversion experience & about his faith, it is obvious that he is sincere. You may not respect his example as a believer or share all of his theology, but it’s walking on shaky ground to say someone’s lying when they claim Christ. My understanding is that McCain has never been “known” for even claiming faith until this election season, but I would never assume the right to judge him as a nonbeliever. And heck, I think George Bush has been a HORRIBLE example of a Christ-follower, lacking practically every outward fruit of the spirit in his policies and attitude, but when I’ve heard him explain his conversion experience, I believe him. I don’t understand him, but I believe him.

    BTW Jean, excellent comments about the whole Jeremiah Wright controversy. The hypocrisy surrounding that issue was crazy. Many, many white preachers condemned the US after 911 and Katrina, saying that was God’s judgement on us — I didn’t hear anyone calling them “anti-American.”

  63. all im saying is that it is very EASY to classify obama’s ideology as simply democratic.

    his policies are typically democrat

    and im not saying thats all bad..im just saying theres nothing further to distinguish his policy as being influenced by his christian ideals

    hell push gay rights, like most democrats

    he hasnt voted on anything thats pro-life and he doesnt seem interested to

    hes for universal health care, like most democrats

    he has the most liberal voting record in the senate

    social justice is or should be very important to a christian but it is also important to a democratic ideology as well. and i think thats as far as it goes with obama. youre not going to tell me there arent democrats who are pro-life and may disagree with their party in those regards

    so, how do you distinguish if obamas social justice policy is a result of his christianity or just simply from his democratic association?

  64. all im saying is that it is very EASY to classify obama’s ideology as simply democratic.

    his policies are typically democrat

    and im not saying thats all bad..im just saying theres nothing further to distinguish his policy as being influenced by his christian ideals

    hell push gay rights, like most democrats

    he hasnt voted on anything thats pro-life and he doesnt seem interested to

    hes for universal health care, like most democrats

    he has the most liberal voting record in the senate

    social justice is or should be very important to a christian but it is also important to a democratic ideology as well. and i think thats as far as it goes with obama. youre not going to tell me there arent democrats who are pro-life and may disagree with their party in those regards

    so, how do you distinguish if obamas social justice policy is a result of his christianity or just simply from his democratic association?

  65. Tonya,

    Jean didn’t make that comment. I did. Jean’s part was highlighted, and I responded below it. Jean would never point out something like that because it makes Obama a little less scary.

    The part that Jean wrote is this:

    They scare me with their ignorance and gullibility to listen to words rather than deeds.

    She’s implying that we who listen to the words of the Democratic candidate, not paying attention to his “evil deeds”, are ignorant.

    To that I’d like to say:
    Well, Jean, let’s take a look at the “words” of our current Republican President when he was running for the office he holds… check out this video during one of the debates when he was running against Al Gore:

    Hmmm…. now, how about his actual “deeds” since being in office? Do you see a conflict between what he SAID and what he has since DONE?

    Guess what? McCain voted with this man more than 90% of the time!

  66. Tonya,

    Jean didn’t make that comment. I did. Jean’s part was highlighted, and I responded below it. Jean would never point out something like that because it makes Obama a little less scary.

    The part that Jean wrote is this:

    They scare me with their ignorance and gullibility to listen to words rather than deeds.

    She’s implying that we who listen to the words of the Democratic candidate, not paying attention to his “evil deeds”, are ignorant.

    To that I’d like to say:
    Well, Jean, let’s take a look at the “words” of our current Republican President when he was running for the office he holds… check out this video during one of the debates when he was running against Al Gore:

    Hmmm…. now, how about his actual “deeds” since being in office? Do you see a conflict between what he SAID and what he has since DONE?

    Guess what? McCain voted with this man more than 90% of the time!

  67. Donny, does that then give Obama a pass. Look at his voting record and what he has actually accomplished while in politics. Not good. Although his record for pro-choice is very solid. Let’s look at the positive side of that (Christians always look at the negative side of genocide). 1) 13 year old girls living a promiscuous sexual life style get abortions without letting those intrusive parents in on the 411. 2) Stem cell research. We can uncover many life saving medical discoveries. Let’s take care of those who are already living. 3)All that tissue from the discarded babi… I mean fetus’. Look at what we can use that stuff for. Major money can be made from health and beauty products. 4) The best part is the millions of souls populating heaven. Talk about the army of God. So that really points to the Christian walk of Obama. Not that we should vote for anyone based on their religion. That’s never really added up.

  68. Donny, does that then give Obama a pass. Look at his voting record and what he has actually accomplished while in politics. Not good. Although his record for pro-choice is very solid. Let’s look at the positive side of that (Christians always look at the negative side of genocide). 1) 13 year old girls living a promiscuous sexual life style get abortions without letting those intrusive parents in on the 411. 2) Stem cell research. We can uncover many life saving medical discoveries. Let’s take care of those who are already living. 3)All that tissue from the discarded babi… I mean fetus’. Look at what we can use that stuff for. Major money can be made from health and beauty products. 4) The best part is the millions of souls populating heaven. Talk about the army of God. So that really points to the Christian walk of Obama. Not that we should vote for anyone based on their religion. That’s never really added up.

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