Donny's Ramblings

Thoughts

42 Comments

Dogs are very loyal. I love my Mastiff pup. He’s very cuddly and loves sleeping with his head on my lap.

I’m very proud of my country today. I have high hopes. I think the team our President has put together is going to fight hard and has a lot to prove. Because of that, I think he and they will do their best, and that’s all we can really ask.

I’ve met my friend Carrie in person one time, but talked to her for hours online. I still consider her my friend. She’s on a mission to save animals and homosexual marriage rights, and doesn’t believe in God at the moment, so we definitely don’t see eye to eye, but I know she’s a good person and think she’s beautiful. She makes life more interesting without even trying. Pray for her as she works her way through heartbreak.

Mastiff puppies fart a lot. It’s not pleasant.

Rick Warren prayed in front of the entire world earlier today. I was impressed at how well he stood up for his convictions. Good job, Pastor Warren!

I think denominations argue too much over petty things. My friend Drew will argue about random nothingness until he’s blue in the face. So will my friend Chris. How spoiled we are to live in a country where we can argue over whose church is closer to what Jesus had in mind.

My ex-wife is amazing. My son says she’s the best person in the world. I have to agree with him.

Did I mention I love my Mastiff?

Click Any Photo To Enlarge:

Hiding From Tickle Monster

Sleeping

Wha? Whaddaya want, dad?

42 thoughts on “Thoughts

  1. “Mastiff puppies fart a lot. It’s not pleasant.” (DP)

    Whose farts are pleasant? I guarantee you my chihuahua can clear the room just as fast as my Rottie…. so I don’t necessarily think the breed or even size matters! Imagine that!

    As for the other stuff… I think the most important thing stated was this:
    “My ex-wife is amazing. My son says she’s the best person in the world. I have to agree with him.” (DP)

    I’d have to agree with both of you.

  2. “Mastiff puppies fart a lot. It’s not pleasant.” (DP)

    Whose farts are pleasant? I guarantee you my chihuahua can clear the room just as fast as my Rottie…. so I don’t necessarily think the breed or even size matters! Imagine that!

    As for the other stuff… I think the most important thing stated was this:
    “My ex-wife is amazing. My son says she’s the best person in the world. I have to agree with him.” (DP)

    I’d have to agree with both of you.

  3. Mine smell like roses, MT. 🙂

  4. Mine smell like roses, MT. 🙂

  5. I know this may burst your bubble, but many mastiffs never get over the farting thing. And they get more smelly with age 😦 Especially when they make a point out of eating grass or vegetables. But they’re so worth it anyway!

  6. I know this may burst your bubble, but many mastiffs never get over the farting thing. And they get more smelly with age 😦 Especially when they make a point out of eating grass or vegetables. But they’re so worth it anyway!

  7. In the early 1900’s, a man pointed out that the signs in the weather pointed out that a terrible storm was going to come ashore to the residents of Galveston, Texas. However, this man was ignored, and within several hours the residents found themselves trapped as the clear blue skies darkened suddenly, and before they knew it escape was too late.

    You are like one of those resident’s, Donny, who is ignoring the ones warning you of the threat upon us. The strange thing is, you have all the evidence you need. Peter Schiff, among others, predicted quite rightly the disaster of October because what the government had done up to then and now intends to intensify had only one possible outcome: the October crash.

    Strangely, if you study your history you’d know that it was precisely what the Federal Resrve did in the 1920’s combined with Hoover’s behavior that created the Great Depression, and FDR only prolonged it rather than let the economy heal. We have lived through our Roaring 20’s in the 1990’s, ahve tried through semi-intelligent poicy under Bush to avoid the suffering, and now we have elected a man who is planning on following Hoover’s example, and the response is that everything is hopeful and positive. This is not a minor issue, and yet you think for some reason it is.

    Issues like how a person becomes a Christian and what they are ultimately holding on to to be saved is not a minor issue. Neither is the reality that the debt of our country is too nigh as it is and that all Obama is really doing (as Bush did) is putting off the inevitable – a terrible, horrible economic storm that is going to obliterate us as an economic nation with no reasonable productive capacity to return from the brink we’ve gone to over the last 20 years under the Bushes and Clinton.

    Obama can’t fix the problem without cutting spending severely, and spending more only deepens the problem. The only thing in the economy that is going to be stimulated through his “stimulus” is the pain and severity of the coming economic recession/depression.. Increasing taxes doesn’t help the debt issue either, because smart people with lots of money (and if they have lots of money it is often because they are smart) know how to protect their income and hire the right people to make sure that their tax burden in minimized through legal means.

    Even worse is the reality of consumer spending that has been built on credit that can’t be repaid, and the response to loosen credit even further only makes this problem worse.

    We can say these are not big problems, but they are, and ignoring them or thinking that this idiot in D.C. and his cronies can do anything to help the problem other than put an end to every kind of welfare, medicare, medicaid, and environmental protection spending is idiotic and plain stupid. Likewise is thinking that without making it profitable to be in business by reducing the tax burden on the rich and the uppoer classes is only going to lead to them putting their money into economies where they can make good with their money.

    Unfortunately, everything this idiot ran on is everything you could possibly do to destroy our economy. I’m encouraging people to buy a home now because interest rates are artificially low, and we will see hyper-inflation hit – probably triple digits though hopefully only double (and gosh I hope not quadriple but it could happen given what’s going on). Our economy is seeing its final breaths of viability as we watch it happen, before the end of our economy comes.

    Sadly, until as Americans we learn that until the government stops interfering in the marketplace things will only get worse, we will have to suffer for our stupidity and the indoctrination we’ve allowed to happen in our schools. These politicians and their “stimulus” packages will only agitate the consumer debt problem, so that when repayment time comes the recovery is much longer and much more intense.

    These are not minor issues.

    Neither is the issue of conversion to Christianity, or any other issue within the faith that has anything to do with what the life, death, and resurrection of Christ means and its impact upon us, as well as how we obtain its benefits. Anyone who thinks through the impact of these issues on the life of the believer and the potential eternal impact can see that these are not minor issues.

    Minor issues are ones like whether you should wash your car today, or if you should eat mexican or chinese food. Minor issues are who is going to win todays football or basketball game. Minor issues are whether we should buy this house or whether or not we’re going to get to eat as much as we’d have hoped today.

    I am not playing in minor issues, as truly minor issues don’t concern me. I really don’t care about such things because I know how little they really matter.

    You are taking a position of turning major issues into minor ones – mostly so you don’t have to face them. The sad part is, your child is going to suffer for your mistakes, and you may be in denial even then about the mistake you have made and our country made this past November and the ones being made in churches and at rallies around the nation by not checking what they’re teaching against what Scripture actually says. These theological issues are not issues that Christians have ever before the current century thought of as minor in importance, because Christians are first and foremost worried about having the teaching of the faith upon which their lives are built be right.

    Like it or not, it changes our lives if we realize that making a decision for Jesus is actually a sinful act and we must receive a gift from outside ourselves. It matters when we finally believe the words of Christ that “a bad tree cannot bear good fruit” and “apart from me you can do nothing,” as well as the words of St. Paul like those that say that “you were dead in your trespasses.”

    When we come to terms with our weakness and the death sin brings to the unbeliever, the inability to make a choice and the fact that it is a self-deception to think you can, it changes how we see everything. We stop looking positively upon our fellow Christians for their sakes and realize that they are among us only out of the pure grace of God.

    It affects our views of other things like recognizing that our current President is going to – because that is all he can do – make matters worse unless he simply pulls back the role government plays beyond that prescribed in the Scriptures: to enforce the Eternal morality and collect sufficient taxes to do so.

    When you finally realize that using money from taxes to win votes and to help the poor is using the power of the government to steal from the rich and give to the poor, you realize that this is immoral, and those who support it make themselves enemies of the Chief Ruler of us all – for which we deserve punishment and for which our nation will be punished justly and rightly.

    You are right, I will argue over these massive and super-important issues until I’m blue in the face, and so I ought to. To not do so is to be delusional as it appears you are. Like it or not, these are far more important issues than the role pornography plays in the lives of human beings. These are issues that have lasting impact on everyone, not just the minority (thoug hpossibly large) who are dealing with that specific issue. Your children amd grandchildren will suffer in this life and the next for getting these thigns wrong. They will suffer because we decided to be positive about the moment when the storm approached us, and they will suffer for our willful ignorance.

    How does one sit back and, watching the terrible storm on the horizon not warn his neighbors? Yet not only have you decided to do so, but to – like the Galveston residents – condemn the “alarmist” who warned of the coming storm.

    You could help a lot of people by facing the coming storm and not living in denial, but instead your fate and many others will be sealed because of your previous and present choices.

    The economic storm has come ashore, and the storm of God’s wrath is coming as well, and we can either make sure we’ve battoned down the hatches and are adequately protected when they come, or we can like the skeptical Galveston residents suffer for our own arrogance and stupidity.

    The only question is – will you play it smart or “have faith” in the idiot in D.C. and his cronies instead? I hope you do the former and not the latter.

    It is true that his neighbors may consider him a fool and an idiot who is making a mountain out of what they think of as a mole hil, until it is too late and the storm has swept down upon them.

  8. In the early 1900’s, a man pointed out that the signs in the weather pointed out that a terrible storm was going to come ashore to the residents of Galveston, Texas. However, this man was ignored, and within several hours the residents found themselves trapped as the clear blue skies darkened suddenly, and before they knew it escape was too late.

    You are like one of those resident’s, Donny, who is ignoring the ones warning you of the threat upon us. The strange thing is, you have all the evidence you need. Peter Schiff, among others, predicted quite rightly the disaster of October because what the government had done up to then and now intends to intensify had only one possible outcome: the October crash.

    Strangely, if you study your history you’d know that it was precisely what the Federal Resrve did in the 1920’s combined with Hoover’s behavior that created the Great Depression, and FDR only prolonged it rather than let the economy heal. We have lived through our Roaring 20’s in the 1990’s, ahve tried through semi-intelligent poicy under Bush to avoid the suffering, and now we have elected a man who is planning on following Hoover’s example, and the response is that everything is hopeful and positive. This is not a minor issue, and yet you think for some reason it is.

    Issues like how a person becomes a Christian and what they are ultimately holding on to to be saved is not a minor issue. Neither is the reality that the debt of our country is too nigh as it is and that all Obama is really doing (as Bush did) is putting off the inevitable – a terrible, horrible economic storm that is going to obliterate us as an economic nation with no reasonable productive capacity to return from the brink we’ve gone to over the last 20 years under the Bushes and Clinton.

    Obama can’t fix the problem without cutting spending severely, and spending more only deepens the problem. The only thing in the economy that is going to be stimulated through his “stimulus” is the pain and severity of the coming economic recession/depression.. Increasing taxes doesn’t help the debt issue either, because smart people with lots of money (and if they have lots of money it is often because they are smart) know how to protect their income and hire the right people to make sure that their tax burden in minimized through legal means.

    Even worse is the reality of consumer spending that has been built on credit that can’t be repaid, and the response to loosen credit even further only makes this problem worse.

    We can say these are not big problems, but they are, and ignoring them or thinking that this idiot in D.C. and his cronies can do anything to help the problem other than put an end to every kind of welfare, medicare, medicaid, and environmental protection spending is idiotic and plain stupid. Likewise is thinking that without making it profitable to be in business by reducing the tax burden on the rich and the uppoer classes is only going to lead to them putting their money into economies where they can make good with their money.

    Unfortunately, everything this idiot ran on is everything you could possibly do to destroy our economy. I’m encouraging people to buy a home now because interest rates are artificially low, and we will see hyper-inflation hit – probably triple digits though hopefully only double (and gosh I hope not quadriple but it could happen given what’s going on). Our economy is seeing its final breaths of viability as we watch it happen, before the end of our economy comes.

    Sadly, until as Americans we learn that until the government stops interfering in the marketplace things will only get worse, we will have to suffer for our stupidity and the indoctrination we’ve allowed to happen in our schools. These politicians and their “stimulus” packages will only agitate the consumer debt problem, so that when repayment time comes the recovery is much longer and much more intense.

    These are not minor issues.

    Neither is the issue of conversion to Christianity, or any other issue within the faith that has anything to do with what the life, death, and resurrection of Christ means and its impact upon us, as well as how we obtain its benefits. Anyone who thinks through the impact of these issues on the life of the believer and the potential eternal impact can see that these are not minor issues.

    Minor issues are ones like whether you should wash your car today, or if you should eat mexican or chinese food. Minor issues are who is going to win todays football or basketball game. Minor issues are whether we should buy this house or whether or not we’re going to get to eat as much as we’d have hoped today.

    I am not playing in minor issues, as truly minor issues don’t concern me. I really don’t care about such things because I know how little they really matter.

    You are taking a position of turning major issues into minor ones – mostly so you don’t have to face them. The sad part is, your child is going to suffer for your mistakes, and you may be in denial even then about the mistake you have made and our country made this past November and the ones being made in churches and at rallies around the nation by not checking what they’re teaching against what Scripture actually says. These theological issues are not issues that Christians have ever before the current century thought of as minor in importance, because Christians are first and foremost worried about having the teaching of the faith upon which their lives are built be right.

    Like it or not, it changes our lives if we realize that making a decision for Jesus is actually a sinful act and we must receive a gift from outside ourselves. It matters when we finally believe the words of Christ that “a bad tree cannot bear good fruit” and “apart from me you can do nothing,” as well as the words of St. Paul like those that say that “you were dead in your trespasses.”

    When we come to terms with our weakness and the death sin brings to the unbeliever, the inability to make a choice and the fact that it is a self-deception to think you can, it changes how we see everything. We stop looking positively upon our fellow Christians for their sakes and realize that they are among us only out of the pure grace of God.

    It affects our views of other things like recognizing that our current President is going to – because that is all he can do – make matters worse unless he simply pulls back the role government plays beyond that prescribed in the Scriptures: to enforce the Eternal morality and collect sufficient taxes to do so.

    When you finally realize that using money from taxes to win votes and to help the poor is using the power of the government to steal from the rich and give to the poor, you realize that this is immoral, and those who support it make themselves enemies of the Chief Ruler of us all – for which we deserve punishment and for which our nation will be punished justly and rightly.

    You are right, I will argue over these massive and super-important issues until I’m blue in the face, and so I ought to. To not do so is to be delusional as it appears you are. Like it or not, these are far more important issues than the role pornography plays in the lives of human beings. These are issues that have lasting impact on everyone, not just the minority (thoug hpossibly large) who are dealing with that specific issue. Your children amd grandchildren will suffer in this life and the next for getting these thigns wrong. They will suffer because we decided to be positive about the moment when the storm approached us, and they will suffer for our willful ignorance.

    How does one sit back and, watching the terrible storm on the horizon not warn his neighbors? Yet not only have you decided to do so, but to – like the Galveston residents – condemn the “alarmist” who warned of the coming storm.

    You could help a lot of people by facing the coming storm and not living in denial, but instead your fate and many others will be sealed because of your previous and present choices.

    The economic storm has come ashore, and the storm of God’s wrath is coming as well, and we can either make sure we’ve battoned down the hatches and are adequately protected when they come, or we can like the skeptical Galveston residents suffer for our own arrogance and stupidity.

    The only question is – will you play it smart or “have faith” in the idiot in D.C. and his cronies instead? I hope you do the former and not the latter.

    It is true that his neighbors may consider him a fool and an idiot who is making a mountain out of what they think of as a mole hil, until it is too late and the storm has swept down upon them.

  9. I’d like to hope that Drew is wrong but I fear he is right on. Our government is repeating the exact same choices that took us into the great depression. Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

    Churches arguing over minor issues like speaking in tongues is asinine. Churches arguing about salvation by grace through faith is not. Tongues will neither gain nor deny you entrance into God’s eternity but grace will.

    Joy in the journey.

  10. I’d like to hope that Drew is wrong but I fear he is right on. Our government is repeating the exact same choices that took us into the great depression. Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

    Churches arguing over minor issues like speaking in tongues is asinine. Churches arguing about salvation by grace through faith is not. Tongues will neither gain nor deny you entrance into God’s eternity but grace will.

    Joy in the journey.

  11. The only real danger with the speaking in tongues thing is that it often is used with supposed “prophecy” that is seen as co-equal with the Scriptures, and anytime anything is seen as co-equal with the Scriptures (e.g., reason or tradition), the Scriptures are interpreted to harmonize and not condemn its new equal partner. Sadly, I have friends who have come out of churches where that has taken place and a rare native language has been used by the spirit in the person to curse Christ in that language to the ignorance of those in the congregation. I do think when Paul spoke of an “interpreter,” he meant someone for whom that language was their native tongue.

    Praying in tongues has never been something I’ve understood. It is mentioned only once in the Scriptures (1 Corinthians) and all we hear about it is that it is a lower form of prayer than normal prayer because it does not enrich the mind as well as the spirit, and so the Apostle Paul says he won’t use it at all. Choosing to pray in tongues is kind of like choosing prayer that is worth a few pennies to prayers worth hundreds of dollars. I guess if you don’t want your prayer to mean anything, it’s the way to go, but the odd thing is that it is advocated as somehow superior to that prayer that the Apostle regards much more highly. Why someone would make that trade and think they’re upgrading I have no idea, other than that they are either illiterate or ignorant regarding the text.

    When such obvious mistakes are made, I do wonder if there is a connection that exists in that historically most pentecostal preachers have been extremely under-educated (many without ever graduating from high school, let alone college). I’m not saying that is how it was universally, but in general that has been the case. It just seems that making such a fundamental and obvious mistake and fighting on that basis shows a lot of ignorance.

    On the other hand, the Ivy League theologians don’t apparently know how to read either, given the fact that they try to argue a lot of stupid stuff like Jesus and Mary Magdelene having a relationship and that Thomas and John were at each others throats, when Thomas is recorded as one of the most dedicated of the Apostle’s in John’s Gospel and a man who was set apart to receive a special revelation of the resurrected Christ and Mary is being used at that moment as a sign or figure of Christ’s bride, the Church.

    So maybe there is no education connection, though I would like to think there was.

  12. The only real danger with the speaking in tongues thing is that it often is used with supposed “prophecy” that is seen as co-equal with the Scriptures, and anytime anything is seen as co-equal with the Scriptures (e.g., reason or tradition), the Scriptures are interpreted to harmonize and not condemn its new equal partner. Sadly, I have friends who have come out of churches where that has taken place and a rare native language has been used by the spirit in the person to curse Christ in that language to the ignorance of those in the congregation. I do think when Paul spoke of an “interpreter,” he meant someone for whom that language was their native tongue.

    Praying in tongues has never been something I’ve understood. It is mentioned only once in the Scriptures (1 Corinthians) and all we hear about it is that it is a lower form of prayer than normal prayer because it does not enrich the mind as well as the spirit, and so the Apostle Paul says he won’t use it at all. Choosing to pray in tongues is kind of like choosing prayer that is worth a few pennies to prayers worth hundreds of dollars. I guess if you don’t want your prayer to mean anything, it’s the way to go, but the odd thing is that it is advocated as somehow superior to that prayer that the Apostle regards much more highly. Why someone would make that trade and think they’re upgrading I have no idea, other than that they are either illiterate or ignorant regarding the text.

    When such obvious mistakes are made, I do wonder if there is a connection that exists in that historically most pentecostal preachers have been extremely under-educated (many without ever graduating from high school, let alone college). I’m not saying that is how it was universally, but in general that has been the case. It just seems that making such a fundamental and obvious mistake and fighting on that basis shows a lot of ignorance.

    On the other hand, the Ivy League theologians don’t apparently know how to read either, given the fact that they try to argue a lot of stupid stuff like Jesus and Mary Magdelene having a relationship and that Thomas and John were at each others throats, when Thomas is recorded as one of the most dedicated of the Apostle’s in John’s Gospel and a man who was set apart to receive a special revelation of the resurrected Christ and Mary is being used at that moment as a sign or figure of Christ’s bride, the Church.

    So maybe there is no education connection, though I would like to think there was.

  13. Oh, and by the way, after all that discussion above about farts I’m really glad I have a cat.

    Cat’s are just so clean and nice, and the only mess I have to worry about is vacuuming up the cat litter occasionally.

    But then again, after cleaning up dog messes as a kid, I couldn’t help but prefer cats. It hasn’t been a hard choice.

    Ah, but if there weren’t dog people, there’d probably not be many dogs, either. So I’m glad you’re enjoying having your pooch.

  14. Oh, and by the way, after all that discussion above about farts I’m really glad I have a cat.

    Cat’s are just so clean and nice, and the only mess I have to worry about is vacuuming up the cat litter occasionally.

    But then again, after cleaning up dog messes as a kid, I couldn’t help but prefer cats. It hasn’t been a hard choice.

    Ah, but if there weren’t dog people, there’d probably not be many dogs, either. So I’m glad you’re enjoying having your pooch.

  15. Just had to jump in, because the subject of tongues seems so controversial, but I don’t have a dogmatic opinion, all I can do is share what I have actually experienced.
    I grew up in the hippie era, and then in the late ’60’s and early ’70’s there was the charismatic, or Jesus movement. I wasn’t a hippie, but many drug taking hippies were wonderfully converted to Christ, and there was without doubt a powerful move of the Holy Spirit. Much of this was accompanied by speaking in tongues.
    I didn’t know anything about this phenomenom because I had grown up attending a conservative church that didn’t teach anything about it as far as I can remember. But one of my brothers told me that he had been prayed for in a little church, and had felt God’s presence, and had prayed in tongues. I had a hunger to know that God was real, as I had not been doing very well in my life choices, and my brother said “Do you want me to pray for you?” I said yes, and immediately when he began to pray for me I felt a physical presence come down on me, definitely not something produced in my imagination, and for the first time in my life I realized that God REALLY is REAL. My brother prayed and then he began to pray in a language I did not understand. The next day alone in my room I started to pray. Then I began to pray in another language. It wasn’t like I lost control or went into a trance. I could start and stop when I wanted. I just yielded my voice to God and started speaking and the other language came out.
    The result of this experience was that I wanted to read the Bible SO much! For the first time it wasn’t boring. The old King James Bible I used at that time has some very worn pages and is marked with highllighter and I practically memorized Romans 8. (I feel a welling up of tears inside of me as I write this.)

    I Corinthians 12 says there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit, and lists tongues and interpretation of tongues among the spiritual gifts.

    A verse from Acts-
    “And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.” Acts 10: 45, 46

    I Corinthians 14- Paul says “I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all” and he also says “he who speaks in a tongue edifies himself.” It sounds as though Paul used his gift of tongues in private prayer. When I pray in private I start in English, and then sometimes go into tongues. Sometimes we don’t know how to express adequately what we need to pray for, and I even believe that sometimes when people pray in tongues they may be praying about a situation that they don’t know about, but God knows. It is amazing how God works.
    I know there have been a lot of excesses over this tongues thing and I believe Christians need to be careful and pray for discernment, but I do believe it’s a genuine gift of the Holy Spirit, and I when I use it I do feel edified and strengthened inside. But I have never spoken out a “message” in tongues in church. The Bible says to test the spirits because many spirits are gone out into the world. But that doesn’t mean we should say that something is always wrong just because it is mis-used sometimes.
    People get excited and go overboard sometimes and are very intrigued by anything supernatural. But we know there really is a spirit world and God does awesome things. I think sometimes God holds back pouring out His Spirit because we don’t know how to handle it, we want to grab the experience and box it and label it and write books about it, or argue about it endlessly.
    To me the fact that God really exists completely blows my mind (for lack of a better expression) and the Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
    We who believe in Him need to unite and pray for the human race, and individually seek His guidance in our lives as to how to share His love and reality with others.
    That was a very well-written post on the economy, Drew! (scary….)

  16. Just had to jump in, because the subject of tongues seems so controversial, but I don’t have a dogmatic opinion, all I can do is share what I have actually experienced.
    I grew up in the hippie era, and then in the late ’60’s and early ’70’s there was the charismatic, or Jesus movement. I wasn’t a hippie, but many drug taking hippies were wonderfully converted to Christ, and there was without doubt a powerful move of the Holy Spirit. Much of this was accompanied by speaking in tongues.
    I didn’t know anything about this phenomenom because I had grown up attending a conservative church that didn’t teach anything about it as far as I can remember. But one of my brothers told me that he had been prayed for in a little church, and had felt God’s presence, and had prayed in tongues. I had a hunger to know that God was real, as I had not been doing very well in my life choices, and my brother said “Do you want me to pray for you?” I said yes, and immediately when he began to pray for me I felt a physical presence come down on me, definitely not something produced in my imagination, and for the first time in my life I realized that God REALLY is REAL. My brother prayed and then he began to pray in a language I did not understand. The next day alone in my room I started to pray. Then I began to pray in another language. It wasn’t like I lost control or went into a trance. I could start and stop when I wanted. I just yielded my voice to God and started speaking and the other language came out.
    The result of this experience was that I wanted to read the Bible SO much! For the first time it wasn’t boring. The old King James Bible I used at that time has some very worn pages and is marked with highllighter and I practically memorized Romans 8. (I feel a welling up of tears inside of me as I write this.)

    I Corinthians 12 says there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit, and lists tongues and interpretation of tongues among the spiritual gifts.

    A verse from Acts-
    “And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.” Acts 10: 45, 46

    I Corinthians 14- Paul says “I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all” and he also says “he who speaks in a tongue edifies himself.” It sounds as though Paul used his gift of tongues in private prayer. When I pray in private I start in English, and then sometimes go into tongues. Sometimes we don’t know how to express adequately what we need to pray for, and I even believe that sometimes when people pray in tongues they may be praying about a situation that they don’t know about, but God knows. It is amazing how God works.
    I know there have been a lot of excesses over this tongues thing and I believe Christians need to be careful and pray for discernment, but I do believe it’s a genuine gift of the Holy Spirit, and I when I use it I do feel edified and strengthened inside. But I have never spoken out a “message” in tongues in church. The Bible says to test the spirits because many spirits are gone out into the world. But that doesn’t mean we should say that something is always wrong just because it is mis-used sometimes.
    People get excited and go overboard sometimes and are very intrigued by anything supernatural. But we know there really is a spirit world and God does awesome things. I think sometimes God holds back pouring out His Spirit because we don’t know how to handle it, we want to grab the experience and box it and label it and write books about it, or argue about it endlessly.
    To me the fact that God really exists completely blows my mind (for lack of a better expression) and the Bible says the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
    We who believe in Him need to unite and pray for the human race, and individually seek His guidance in our lives as to how to share His love and reality with others.
    That was a very well-written post on the economy, Drew! (scary….)

  17. Above we read a common misuse and willfull choosing of Scriptural texts out of their clear context. As I mentioned earlier, there is actually only one place where “prayer in a tongue” is mentioned, and it is important that we follow what the text says and what Paul’s point is:

    1 Corinthians 14:14-19 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

    Paul, in both talking about speaking in tongues and prayer in tongues condemns it apart from the use of the mind – that is, the mindful knowledge of what is being said (understanding the tongue, or language and having it under control). This is the opposite of what is used in Pentecostal churches, who don’t let Paul finish what he was saying.

    In Acts, there is only one clear example of the actual gift of speaking in tongues as it was used, and that was on Pentecost – and the purpose there was to overcome the curse from Babel so that the Gospel might be preached by Peter and the other Apostles. That is the only known purpose of speaking in a tongue – the crossing of a language barrier by supernatural power.

    It is important that someone have the power to interpret, and not by another gift of the Spirit but because it is a language with which the individual is ordinarily acquainted.

    Unfortunately, the unwillingness to note that Paul treats as shameful and foolish the speaking or praying in tongues where the spirit is separated from the cognitive uses of the mind (not mindless chatter) is habitually and regularly ignored by those who try to glory in such a supposed gift.

    Though this might be offensive to Pentecostals, there is a real danger in the fact that in many pagan cults historically praying in unknown tongues as well as gifts of healing and other supposed miracles were and continue to be used by those who serve these false gods. I have met missionaries from all over the globe who have told of how these identical “gifts” were used to keep people away from the Cross, not to lead them to it.

    While I could argue this further, I should note that Jesus in John’s Gospel – the only place where the gift of the Spirit is promised to the Church – never mentions tongues or healings but instead mentions that the Spirit glorifies Him, and he had earlier (in John 12) defined his glory as the sacrifice (at that time) to come on Calvary’s Tree. Even more, Paul makes clear that he desires “to know nothing by Christ Crucified” and that the message of the Church is Christ Crucified.

    The true test for if this is of the Holy Spirit or a demon is not anything short of whether or not the Spirit speaks of what Jesus said the Spirit would speak about: the glorification of Christ and the Church through his Holy Sacrifice and glorious resurrection.

    I do believe that in most pentecostal churches the people are speaking by a demonic power because the “spirit” is doing something rather different – giving glory to the persons involved and not bringing glorty to the Dying, Bleeding, and Suffering Christ.

    This is the acid-test, and almost without fail pentecostals fail to show that the “spirit” they are speaking by passes this minimal test.

    • Finally, for Drew, just a brief word on the speaking in tongues issue. You are right in saying that there are cults that use speaking in tongues, such as “the Way International” to name one. However, I grew up attending Spanish Pentecostal churches and then later on my own went to non-denominational churches that believed in speaking in tongues. While I myself have not spoken in tongues, and have seen more than my share of those who do, living unholy lives or at least lives that would seem to be not derived from such an experience, I do have a respect for it, especially when used properly and the life that is so inspired by it, is a life that demonstrates a changed life. They tend to have a presence of authority as well.
      On the one side you have the Pentecostal movement in some sectors go into a legalistic and religious realm of what it would be called a clothesline religion, where the women weren’t supposed to wear jewelry or pants, etc. and the men weren’t supposed to grow beards, etc. Of course, some of this came from cultural connections in that Hispanic men with beards were considered rebels a.k.a. Castro, etc (they forgot about Jesus, who was a rebel in His own right). For the women, scriptures like in 1 Timothy 2:9 where Paul indicates “Also [I desire] that women should adorn themselves modestly and appropriately and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with [elaborate] hair arrangement or gold or pearls or expensive clothing,” Amplified Bible they would go entirely the whole way toward using no jewelry or makeup and use bland clothing, which is to outwardly show holiness, though it ends up only being for show and not necessarily where the heart is..
      On another side you have those engaged in it being seen as emotionally driven and only speaking what they call glossalalia (spelling?) by those who don’t understand it. Or like with Mennonites and Amish, among who I also lived, believing that it is no longer applicable because of a scripture like in 1 Corinthians 13:8-10: “Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy ([a]the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth]. 9For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).10But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded). ” Amplified Bible This is where they failed to understand that prophecy and tongues hasn’t ceased, and knowledge hasn’t ceased, because the perfect hasn’t come yet, which is Jesus. at least in terms of His return.
      As for whether tongues are mentioned in scripture once or not, I beg to differ as its implication is seen elsewhere, even back to Saul, 1st king of Israel, in the book of Samuel. Though it does not say that Saul spoke in tongues it does imply something like it, in the manner in which the passage is written. Words used to describe Saul are that he became another man and prophesied. Of course in the scripture, prophesying in this context and in 1 Corinthians is inspired preaching and teaching. However, the tongues are also called unknown, whereas they could be a language from some country or peoples, but not necessarily. As it stands, you are speaking with God and with your spirit. To this, Paul encourages the speaker of an unknown tongue to also ask for the ability to interpret what was said. I had the privilege in two of the churches I attended, where tongues was spoken loudly in the congregation, and then interpretation followed, either by the originator who spoke in tongues or another or even the minister, and more often than not, what was interpreted, was indeed divinely inspired, bringing conviction or edification, or instruction. There were a few times though, when such scenarios included what one could sense was not a spirit from God, to which the minister/pastor would halt it and it confirmed at least in my spirit that indeed there was something wrong with it, whether it was show, or false sayings. One interesting part was that often, it was in old English or King James style speaking. Now, whether this was for the sake of the listener who might have been more familiar with KJV or the sense that it had a “sound” of authority, it completely depended on each situation. But most importantly, one of the parameters of allowing it to go on, was whether what was being “prophesied” was in order with scripture or whether it conflicted with the known whole of the scripture. People in a congregation are at different places in their walk, so depending on how much scripture they’ve read or their maturity in Christ, pretty much helped individuals decipher truth from a lie and it was confirmed by the pastor. Having read through scripture several times, studied, etc. it was an interesting dynamic to watch or live or experience the “order” of the service which seemed to match what might have taken place during the time of the disciples/apostles. Within such an “ambiance” or atmosphere, there was also orderly worship, deliverance, etc. This is certainly not the case in all churches of Pentecostal origin. Though many do not conform to the order of worship described in scripture, it does not knock out all of them and mean that they are all wrong or demonic, neither is any one church perfect in every aspect of how it carries out the life of Christ, which can either show that it is not vitally connected to the head which is Christ, or that it keeps us constantly depending on the head which is Christ. She is the Bride, being perfected and working out Her salvation with fear and trembling.
      Anyway, how do you determine prophecy, especially by a school of prophets, unless you are foretelling or uttering words of direction or edification, or otherwise? However, one point to consider in looking at the whole of this is that even after Saul having had such a God anointed beginning to his kingship and how he was transformed, his progressive decline of obedience to God and his eventual demise shows that even with all of this revelation, obedience and humility and being watchful to live a life worthy of that anointing is required or warranted most likely because you are an example to those who would follow but also because you are dealing with the living God. To which Paul would say, I speak more tongues than all of you, but I would rather speak a few intelligible words so that the listener can be edified. In 1 Corinthians 14: Anyway, here’s the scripture on Saul and also on tongues from the Amplified Bible. This is certainly things to consider and not the last word so to speak.
      1 Samuel 10:1-27
      1THEN SAMUEL took the vial of oil and poured it on Saul’s head and kissed him and said, Has not the Lord anointed you to be prince over His heritage Israel?
      2When you have left me today, you will meet two men by Rachel’s tomb in the territory of Benjamin at Zelzah, and they will say to you, The donkeys you sought are found. And your father has quit caring about them and is anxious for you, asking, What shall I do about my son?
      3Then you will go on from there and you will come to the oak of Tabor, and three men going up to God at Bethel will meet you there, one carrying three kids, another carrying three loaves of bread, and another carrying a skin bottle of wine.
      4They will greet you and give you two loaves of bread, which you shall accept from their hand.
      5After that you will come to the hill of God, where the garrison of the Philistines is; and when you come to the city, you will meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with harp, tambourine, flute, and lyre before them, prophesying.
      6Then the Spirit of the Lord will come upon you mightily, and you will show yourself to be a prophet with them; and you will be turned into another man.
      7When these signs meet you, do whatever you find to be done, for God is with you.
      8You shall go down before me to Gilgal; and behold, I will come down to you to offer burnt offerings and to sacrifice peace offerings. You shall wait seven days until I come to you and show you what you shall do.
      9And when [Saul] had turned his back to leave Samuel, God gave him another heart, and all these signs came to pass that day.
      10When they came to the hill [Gibeah], behold, a band of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came mightily upon him, and he spoke under divine inspiration among them.
      11And when all who knew Saul before saw that he spoke by inspiration among the [schooled] prophets, the people said one to another, What has come over [him, who is nobody but] the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?
      12One from that same place answered, But who is the father of the others? So it became a proverb, Is Saul also among the prophets?
      13When [Saul] had ended his inspired speaking, he went to the high place.
      14Saul’s uncle said to him and to his servant, Where did you go? And Saul said, To look for the donkeys, and when we found them nowhere, we went to Samuel.
      15Saul’s uncle said, Tell me, what did Samuel say to you?
      16And Saul said to his uncle, He told us plainly that the donkeys were found. But of the matter of the kingdom of which Samuel spoke he told him nothing.
      17And Samuel called the people together to the Lord at Mizpah
      18And said to the Israelites, Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: It was I Who brought up Israel out of Egypt and delivered you out of the hands of the Egyptians and of all the kingdoms that oppressed you.
      19But you have this day rejected your God, Who Himself saves you from all your calamities and distresses; and you have said to Him, No! Set a king over us. So now present yourselves before the Lord by your tribes and by your thousands.
      20And when Samuel had caused all the tribes of Israel to come near, the tribe of Benjamin was taken [probably by lot].
      21When he had caused the tribe of Benjamin to come near by their families, the family of Matri was taken. And Saul son of Kish was taken. But when they looked for him, he could not be found.
      22Therefore they inquired of the Lord further, if the man would yet come back. And the Lord answered, Behold, he has hidden himself among the baggage.(A)
      23They ran and brought him from there. And when he stood among the people, he was a head taller than any of them.
      24And Samuel said to all the people, Do you see him whom the Lord has chosen, that none like him is among all the people? And all the people shouted and said, Long live the king!
      25Then Samuel told the people the manner of the kingdom [defining the position of the king in relation to God and to the people], and wrote it in a book and laid it up before the Lord. And Samuel sent all the people away, each one to his home.
      26Saul also went home to Gibeah; and there went with him a band of valiant men whose hearts God had touched.
      27But some worthless fellows said, How can this man save us? And they despised him and brought him no gift. But he held his peace and was as if deaf.

  18. Above we read a common misuse and willfull choosing of Scriptural texts out of their clear context. As I mentioned earlier, there is actually only one place where “prayer in a tongue” is mentioned, and it is important that we follow what the text says and what Paul’s point is:

    1 Corinthians 14:14-19 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

    Paul, in both talking about speaking in tongues and prayer in tongues condemns it apart from the use of the mind – that is, the mindful knowledge of what is being said (understanding the tongue, or language and having it under control). This is the opposite of what is used in Pentecostal churches, who don’t let Paul finish what he was saying.

    In Acts, there is only one clear example of the actual gift of speaking in tongues as it was used, and that was on Pentecost – and the purpose there was to overcome the curse from Babel so that the Gospel might be preached by Peter and the other Apostles. That is the only known purpose of speaking in a tongue – the crossing of a language barrier by supernatural power.

    It is important that someone have the power to interpret, and not by another gift of the Spirit but because it is a language with which the individual is ordinarily acquainted.

    Unfortunately, the unwillingness to note that Paul treats as shameful and foolish the speaking or praying in tongues where the spirit is separated from the cognitive uses of the mind (not mindless chatter) is habitually and regularly ignored by those who try to glory in such a supposed gift.

    Though this might be offensive to Pentecostals, there is a real danger in the fact that in many pagan cults historically praying in unknown tongues as well as gifts of healing and other supposed miracles were and continue to be used by those who serve these false gods. I have met missionaries from all over the globe who have told of how these identical “gifts” were used to keep people away from the Cross, not to lead them to it.

    While I could argue this further, I should note that Jesus in John’s Gospel – the only place where the gift of the Spirit is promised to the Church – never mentions tongues or healings but instead mentions that the Spirit glorifies Him, and he had earlier (in John 12) defined his glory as the sacrifice (at that time) to come on Calvary’s Tree. Even more, Paul makes clear that he desires “to know nothing by Christ Crucified” and that the message of the Church is Christ Crucified.

    The true test for if this is of the Holy Spirit or a demon is not anything short of whether or not the Spirit speaks of what Jesus said the Spirit would speak about: the glorification of Christ and the Church through his Holy Sacrifice and glorious resurrection.

    I do believe that in most pentecostal churches the people are speaking by a demonic power because the “spirit” is doing something rather different – giving glory to the persons involved and not bringing glorty to the Dying, Bleeding, and Suffering Christ.

    This is the acid-test, and almost without fail pentecostals fail to show that the “spirit” they are speaking by passes this minimal test.

    • Finally, for Drew, just a brief word on the speaking in tongues issue. You are right in saying that there are cults that use speaking in tongues, such as “the Way International” to name one. However, I grew up attending Spanish Pentecostal churches and then later on my own went to non-denominational churches that believed in speaking in tongues. While I myself have not spoken in tongues, and have seen more than my share of those who do, living unholy lives or at least lives that would seem to be not derived from such an experience, I do have a respect for it, especially when used properly and the life that is so inspired by it, is a life that demonstrates a changed life. They tend to have a presence of authority as well.
      On the one side you have the Pentecostal movement in some sectors go into a legalistic and religious realm of what it would be called a clothesline religion, where the women weren’t supposed to wear jewelry or pants, etc. and the men weren’t supposed to grow beards, etc. Of course, some of this came from cultural connections in that Hispanic men with beards were considered rebels a.k.a. Castro, etc (they forgot about Jesus, who was a rebel in His own right). For the women, scriptures like in 1 Timothy 2:9 where Paul indicates “Also [I desire] that women should adorn themselves modestly and appropriately and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with [elaborate] hair arrangement or gold or pearls or expensive clothing,” Amplified Bible they would go entirely the whole way toward using no jewelry or makeup and use bland clothing, which is to outwardly show holiness, though it ends up only being for show and not necessarily where the heart is..
      On another side you have those engaged in it being seen as emotionally driven and only speaking what they call glossalalia (spelling?) by those who don’t understand it. Or like with Mennonites and Amish, among who I also lived, believing that it is no longer applicable because of a scripture like in 1 Corinthians 13:8-10: “Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy ([a]the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth]. 9For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).10But when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded). ” Amplified Bible This is where they failed to understand that prophecy and tongues hasn’t ceased, and knowledge hasn’t ceased, because the perfect hasn’t come yet, which is Jesus. at least in terms of His return.
      As for whether tongues are mentioned in scripture once or not, I beg to differ as its implication is seen elsewhere, even back to Saul, 1st king of Israel, in the book of Samuel. Though it does not say that Saul spoke in tongues it does imply something like it, in the manner in which the passage is written. Words used to describe Saul are that he became another man and prophesied. Of course in the scripture, prophesying in this context and in 1 Corinthians is inspired preaching and teaching. However, the tongues are also called unknown, whereas they could be a language from some country or peoples, but not necessarily. As it stands, you are speaking with God and with your spirit. To this, Paul encourages the speaker of an unknown tongue to also ask for the ability to interpret what was said. I had the privilege in two of the churches I attended, where tongues was spoken loudly in the congregation, and then interpretation followed, either by the originator who spoke in tongues or another or even the minister, and more often than not, what was interpreted, was indeed divinely inspired, bringing conviction or edification, or instruction. There were a few times though, when such scenarios included what one could sense was not a spirit from God, to which the minister/pastor would halt it and it confirmed at least in my spirit that indeed there was something wrong with it, whether it was show, or false sayings. One interesting part was that often, it was in old English or King James style speaking. Now, whether this was for the sake of the listener who might have been more familiar with KJV or the sense that it had a “sound” of authority, it completely depended on each situation. But most importantly, one of the parameters of allowing it to go on, was whether what was being “prophesied” was in order with scripture or whether it conflicted with the known whole of the scripture. People in a congregation are at different places in their walk, so depending on how much scripture they’ve read or their maturity in Christ, pretty much helped individuals decipher truth from a lie and it was confirmed by the pastor. Having read through scripture several times, studied, etc. it was an interesting dynamic to watch or live or experience the “order” of the service which seemed to match what might have taken place during the time of the disciples/apostles. Within such an “ambiance” or atmosphere, there was also orderly worship, deliverance, etc. This is certainly not the case in all churches of Pentecostal origin. Though many do not conform to the order of worship described in scripture, it does not knock out all of them and mean that they are all wrong or demonic, neither is any one church perfect in every aspect of how it carries out the life of Christ, which can either show that it is not vitally connected to the head which is Christ, or that it keeps us constantly depending on the head which is Christ. She is the Bride, being perfected and working out Her salvation with fear and trembling.
      Anyway, how do you determine prophecy, especially by a school of prophets, unless you are foretelling or uttering words of direction or edification, or otherwise? However, one point to consider in looking at the whole of this is that even after Saul having had such a God anointed beginning to his kingship and how he was transformed, his progressive decline of obedience to God and his eventual demise shows that even with all of this revelation, obedience and humility and being watchful to live a life worthy of that anointing is required or warranted most likely because you are an example to those who would follow but also because you are dealing with the living God. To which Paul would say, I speak more tongues than all of you, but I would rather speak a few intelligible words so that the listener can be edified. In 1 Corinthians 14: Anyway, here’s the scripture on Saul and also on tongues from the Amplified Bible. This is certainly things to consider and not the last word so to speak.
      1 Samuel 10:1-27
      1THEN SAMUEL took the vial of oil and poured it on Saul’s head and kissed him and said, Has not the Lord anointed you to be prince over His heritage Israel?
      2When you have left me today, you will meet two men by Rachel’s tomb in the territory of Benjamin at Zelzah, and they will say to you, The donkeys you sought are found. And your father has quit caring about them and is anxious for you, asking, What shall I do about my son?
      3Then you will go on from there and you will come to the oak of Tabor, and three men going up to God at Bethel will meet you there, one carrying three kids, another carrying three loaves of bread, and another carrying a skin bottle of wine.
      4They will greet you and give you two loaves of bread, which you shall accept from their hand.
      5After that you will come to the hill of God, where the garrison of the Philistines is; and when you come to the city, you will meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with harp, tambourine, flute, and lyre before them, prophesying.
      6Then the Spirit of the Lord will come upon you mightily, and you will show yourself to be a prophet with them; and you will be turned into another man.
      7When these signs meet you, do whatever you find to be done, for God is with you.
      8You shall go down before me to Gilgal; and behold, I will come down to you to offer burnt offerings and to sacrifice peace offerings. You shall wait seven days until I come to you and show you what you shall do.
      9And when [Saul] had turned his back to leave Samuel, God gave him another heart, and all these signs came to pass that day.
      10When they came to the hill [Gibeah], behold, a band of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came mightily upon him, and he spoke under divine inspiration among them.
      11And when all who knew Saul before saw that he spoke by inspiration among the [schooled] prophets, the people said one to another, What has come over [him, who is nobody but] the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?
      12One from that same place answered, But who is the father of the others? So it became a proverb, Is Saul also among the prophets?
      13When [Saul] had ended his inspired speaking, he went to the high place.
      14Saul’s uncle said to him and to his servant, Where did you go? And Saul said, To look for the donkeys, and when we found them nowhere, we went to Samuel.
      15Saul’s uncle said, Tell me, what did Samuel say to you?
      16And Saul said to his uncle, He told us plainly that the donkeys were found. But of the matter of the kingdom of which Samuel spoke he told him nothing.
      17And Samuel called the people together to the Lord at Mizpah
      18And said to the Israelites, Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel: It was I Who brought up Israel out of Egypt and delivered you out of the hands of the Egyptians and of all the kingdoms that oppressed you.
      19But you have this day rejected your God, Who Himself saves you from all your calamities and distresses; and you have said to Him, No! Set a king over us. So now present yourselves before the Lord by your tribes and by your thousands.
      20And when Samuel had caused all the tribes of Israel to come near, the tribe of Benjamin was taken [probably by lot].
      21When he had caused the tribe of Benjamin to come near by their families, the family of Matri was taken. And Saul son of Kish was taken. But when they looked for him, he could not be found.
      22Therefore they inquired of the Lord further, if the man would yet come back. And the Lord answered, Behold, he has hidden himself among the baggage.(A)
      23They ran and brought him from there. And when he stood among the people, he was a head taller than any of them.
      24And Samuel said to all the people, Do you see him whom the Lord has chosen, that none like him is among all the people? And all the people shouted and said, Long live the king!
      25Then Samuel told the people the manner of the kingdom [defining the position of the king in relation to God and to the people], and wrote it in a book and laid it up before the Lord. And Samuel sent all the people away, each one to his home.
      26Saul also went home to Gibeah; and there went with him a band of valiant men whose hearts God had touched.
      27But some worthless fellows said, How can this man save us? And they despised him and brought him no gift. But he held his peace and was as if deaf.

  19. Dear Donnie,
    Interesting thoughts. I have had a few of my own today too, after hearing some disturbing news…or should I say, what should be expected.
    First I’ll backtrack, especially after doing some research:
    1-Margaret Sanger, originator of Planned Parenthood or at least the involved with some of the Roe V. Wade stuff, apparently orchestrated “stuff” to eliminate the black community.
    2-Due to our history in slavery, apparently it has been unseen to see that many blacks are creating and orchestrating the demise of their own people.
    3-Apparently over 4,200 soldiers have died in Iraq trying to “save” Iraqis and subdue terrorism here, while at the same time terrorizing them over there in their homes…according to Kerry and others on the left.
    4-Billions of our hard earned, middle class and rich taxes have been going to a war that most in this country doesn’t believe in, by the polls anyway, and all for oil, though our military was paying $4/gallon over there like we here were.
    5-Apparently Obama is keeping his promises, though if someone promised to kill me, I would hope they’d change their mind about it before they did anything…and I wouldn’t have a problem with it and would not think of them less if they did.
    6-Well, it’s the number of man….on Friday in the very first week of his presidency, Mr. Obama signed and lifted Bush’s ban on taxpayer dollars going to fund abortions worldwide in the guise of “women’s health issues” around the world.
    7-Apparently, with the stroke of his pen, not only has he sanctified, in the middle of financial crisis here – if there is one, for US taxes to support worldwide terrorism in the wombs of women everywhere, but in this country alone, more than a million are performed, with blacks near the top of that number. He culminated in this one move, everything else I’ve said in 1-5. That is Millions more dead or doomed to death, in a war against those who’ve done nothing to deserve it and at our tax paid deficit – really. For those who claim the heart rendering “rape and incest” card…in this country, it only constitutes 1% of pregnancies and/or rapes and incest occurrences. He promised and he’s delivered, but that is only the beginning. I’m already hearing some of my Christian brothers and sisters squawking at such a move by him. This whole thing made me think the other day how a van passed me which could have had people in it that I knew. And all though I was staring in their direction, I didn’t see if they were waving at me. I believe at least from a Christian perspective that believers gave up their values to make history. They were staring at the truth but were glaringly looking the other way. They hated everything about Bush, and yet, in one pen stroke, so many of their arguments, were doubled, tripled, or more in magnitude by the impact on what this will do not only here but worldwide against the really innocent. If Christians blew it during the deliberations of Roe V Wade, then they’ve really blown it here. If a war that at least was yielding some effect here in terms of information and protection in Iraq, with as minimal of loss as is possible in such a scenario, then certainly, total loss is guaranteed now for a war that irresponsible teens and adults worldwide now have more funding to wage on the most innocent. Hamas and all other terrorist fight from among the civilians because they’re cowards. Israel and we look bad when we hit back and children get killed. With as much precision as is possible, civilians still get hurt…there is no such safe guard now, for the most innocent of them all.
    What did we expect?
    Of course, this is after the fact, but apparently, the argument by black liberation theology and so much of the radical black community that whites have suppressed them, now is being done by their own…not just suppression, but terrorism, and in the womb at that. And now, with a troubled economy, our taxpayer – or should I say, the middle class and rich who pay the taxes, dollars will not only continue the annihilation of the black and other populations, but now we are exporting it through the brush stroke of a pen in the very first days of the first African American President. That certainly is change for me, but not really. Reminds me of the cook book scenario of the Twilight Zone episode called “To serve man” it wasn’t till it was too late that they found out what “change” there would be. People of every race who supposedly believe in God and Christian values in this country, sacrificed that in order to insure that we made history with the first Black president…or was it that they didn’t like Bush spending our tax money and soldiers in Iraq, or whatever, only to now have us not only terrorizing people in their homes in foreign countries, but now, with taxpayer dollars we’re doing it in their women’s wombs…millions of lives lost, versus the 4,000 + we’ve lost in war we knew we were fighting and really helping those people, even the disgruntled ones, get their lives back. I didn’t like McCain, but at least I knew where he was coming from. Anyway, so much for the stroke of a pen by Obama…and that is not the end of the story…more to come from him on change. Change we can believe in.
    I want to give him a chance for sure…but he has already laid out his intentions and he’s keeping his promises…so I’m not so sure there’s much surprise there. To blame Bush for our economic woes when a liberal agenda to make housing affordable to all was impressed, if indeed that is what started this whole downturn, sounds like cheating terrorist tactics to me when you want to ruin the guy who “stole” the election in their eyes, even when their liberal media went down to Florida and do the count themselves and still came up with Bush winning…anyway, I’ve carried this on long enough…I just don’t know how else I could scream out on behalf of the unborn, to 60% of this country, some of who are believers, to have not seen this coming with more to come…
    Anyway, that’s been some of my thoughts…

    • First of all, Donny, I want to apologize for spilling out all over, and then not following up until now due to school and other commitments. Especially when nothing of what I had to say had anything to do with the thoughts you were sharing. It’s just that as I compiled the information taken from current news at the time, coupling it with past news and throwing into it the mix of opinions and rhetoric that I had been hearing, especially, hearing from a fellow believer when to their “astonishment” with what President Obama had done, knowing full well that they had voted for him, and how dismayed they were…I guess I was like…I guess you’re not really looking, hearing or understanding what is at stake here…but anyway, I digress. Thanks for your patience though with me as I blurted out my thoughts, at least at one place I felt I could, whether I was cohesive and comprehensive or not. I hope what I write here will at least be more concise or cover everything, but I’m sure I’ll probably miss something here. Not being able to post it all here, I decided to reply at each one’s comments regarding what I said if indeed they were writing about what I said. I did so with you here, also with Jean, with Murray on being more concise, and then Drew (though unrelated to my former comments and having to do with the issue of speaking in tongues.
      My disclaimer here is that my comments in no way are aimed at belittling those who have had abortions. I have made my own mistakes…not as drastic or life threatening, but nonetheless a mistake. 2 girlfriends of mine, one by rape of a former boyfriend and one by a boyfriend in a moment of weakness and unprotected sex, got pregnant and though they didn’t believe in abortion, the stresses of their lives at the time, inevitably resulted in them having abortions. Likewise, acquaintances of mine engaged in the world of porn, due to traumatic life experiences, fear of death or the kind of world that a child should never live in, due to rape or otherwise, have had abortions. I love all of these women dearly and would never sit on some anonymous throne and judge them. However, some by choice and some succumb to the lifestyles they were living, brought them to those dilemma situations where a choice they otherwise would not have made, made it. I have made stupid mistakes in my life. Choices that were stupid that led to more stupid choices. These were essentially irresponsible acts. I do not condemn anyone for such as I too have found the grace of God and mercy and forgiveness. What I identified in my comments is part of a much bigger picture with farther reaching problems and issues. Unfortunately, the current President, with all the eyes and hopes on him, is part of a much bigger problem. I’m sure there were other men and women in Israel committing adultery, but when it comes to pointing it out, King David, a follower of God is singled out by the prophet Nathan. Likewise, in Jesus’ time, I’m sure Israel had other adulterers, but God, through John the Baptist, singles out Herod who happened to have taken his brothers wife. The leader or teacher, etc. has a much greater mantle or responsibility on his shoulder, because he represents… President Obama couldn’t determine when life began, and has been inclusive of the Christian community; just as he has been of every other community…you could say he has to be to be President because he is president of everyone. However, I can not forget the absolute correct description by someone who knew or knows him, Rev. Wright, in saying whatever he is doing; he is doing for “political expediency”. So he doesn’t show me that he stands for anything in particular but whatever is needed for the moment or that will appeal to the many. That certainly is “change” I can believe in. The only sure thing is change, but what we need is someone who is a rock and stands for something, and it certainly shouldn’t be change.

  20. Dear Donnie,
    Interesting thoughts. I have had a few of my own today too, after hearing some disturbing news…or should I say, what should be expected.
    First I’ll backtrack, especially after doing some research:
    1-Margaret Sanger, originator of Planned Parenthood or at least the involved with some of the Roe V. Wade stuff, apparently orchestrated “stuff” to eliminate the black community.
    2-Due to our history in slavery, apparently it has been unseen to see that many blacks are creating and orchestrating the demise of their own people.
    3-Apparently over 4,200 soldiers have died in Iraq trying to “save” Iraqis and subdue terrorism here, while at the same time terrorizing them over there in their homes…according to Kerry and others on the left.
    4-Billions of our hard earned, middle class and rich taxes have been going to a war that most in this country doesn’t believe in, by the polls anyway, and all for oil, though our military was paying $4/gallon over there like we here were.
    5-Apparently Obama is keeping his promises, though if someone promised to kill me, I would hope they’d change their mind about it before they did anything…and I wouldn’t have a problem with it and would not think of them less if they did.
    6-Well, it’s the number of man….on Friday in the very first week of his presidency, Mr. Obama signed and lifted Bush’s ban on taxpayer dollars going to fund abortions worldwide in the guise of “women’s health issues” around the world.
    7-Apparently, with the stroke of his pen, not only has he sanctified, in the middle of financial crisis here – if there is one, for US taxes to support worldwide terrorism in the wombs of women everywhere, but in this country alone, more than a million are performed, with blacks near the top of that number. He culminated in this one move, everything else I’ve said in 1-5. That is Millions more dead or doomed to death, in a war against those who’ve done nothing to deserve it and at our tax paid deficit – really. For those who claim the heart rendering “rape and incest” card…in this country, it only constitutes 1% of pregnancies and/or rapes and incest occurrences. He promised and he’s delivered, but that is only the beginning. I’m already hearing some of my Christian brothers and sisters squawking at such a move by him. This whole thing made me think the other day how a van passed me which could have had people in it that I knew. And all though I was staring in their direction, I didn’t see if they were waving at me. I believe at least from a Christian perspective that believers gave up their values to make history. They were staring at the truth but were glaringly looking the other way. They hated everything about Bush, and yet, in one pen stroke, so many of their arguments, were doubled, tripled, or more in magnitude by the impact on what this will do not only here but worldwide against the really innocent. If Christians blew it during the deliberations of Roe V Wade, then they’ve really blown it here. If a war that at least was yielding some effect here in terms of information and protection in Iraq, with as minimal of loss as is possible in such a scenario, then certainly, total loss is guaranteed now for a war that irresponsible teens and adults worldwide now have more funding to wage on the most innocent. Hamas and all other terrorist fight from among the civilians because they’re cowards. Israel and we look bad when we hit back and children get killed. With as much precision as is possible, civilians still get hurt…there is no such safe guard now, for the most innocent of them all.
    What did we expect?
    Of course, this is after the fact, but apparently, the argument by black liberation theology and so much of the radical black community that whites have suppressed them, now is being done by their own…not just suppression, but terrorism, and in the womb at that. And now, with a troubled economy, our taxpayer – or should I say, the middle class and rich who pay the taxes, dollars will not only continue the annihilation of the black and other populations, but now we are exporting it through the brush stroke of a pen in the very first days of the first African American President. That certainly is change for me, but not really. Reminds me of the cook book scenario of the Twilight Zone episode called “To serve man” it wasn’t till it was too late that they found out what “change” there would be. People of every race who supposedly believe in God and Christian values in this country, sacrificed that in order to insure that we made history with the first Black president…or was it that they didn’t like Bush spending our tax money and soldiers in Iraq, or whatever, only to now have us not only terrorizing people in their homes in foreign countries, but now, with taxpayer dollars we’re doing it in their women’s wombs…millions of lives lost, versus the 4,000 + we’ve lost in war we knew we were fighting and really helping those people, even the disgruntled ones, get their lives back. I didn’t like McCain, but at least I knew where he was coming from. Anyway, so much for the stroke of a pen by Obama…and that is not the end of the story…more to come from him on change. Change we can believe in.
    I want to give him a chance for sure…but he has already laid out his intentions and he’s keeping his promises…so I’m not so sure there’s much surprise there. To blame Bush for our economic woes when a liberal agenda to make housing affordable to all was impressed, if indeed that is what started this whole downturn, sounds like cheating terrorist tactics to me when you want to ruin the guy who “stole” the election in their eyes, even when their liberal media went down to Florida and do the count themselves and still came up with Bush winning…anyway, I’ve carried this on long enough…I just don’t know how else I could scream out on behalf of the unborn, to 60% of this country, some of who are believers, to have not seen this coming with more to come…
    Anyway, that’s been some of my thoughts…

    • First of all, Donny, I want to apologize for spilling out all over, and then not following up until now due to school and other commitments. Especially when nothing of what I had to say had anything to do with the thoughts you were sharing. It’s just that as I compiled the information taken from current news at the time, coupling it with past news and throwing into it the mix of opinions and rhetoric that I had been hearing, especially, hearing from a fellow believer when to their “astonishment” with what President Obama had done, knowing full well that they had voted for him, and how dismayed they were…I guess I was like…I guess you’re not really looking, hearing or understanding what is at stake here…but anyway, I digress. Thanks for your patience though with me as I blurted out my thoughts, at least at one place I felt I could, whether I was cohesive and comprehensive or not. I hope what I write here will at least be more concise or cover everything, but I’m sure I’ll probably miss something here. Not being able to post it all here, I decided to reply at each one’s comments regarding what I said if indeed they were writing about what I said. I did so with you here, also with Jean, with Murray on being more concise, and then Drew (though unrelated to my former comments and having to do with the issue of speaking in tongues.
      My disclaimer here is that my comments in no way are aimed at belittling those who have had abortions. I have made my own mistakes…not as drastic or life threatening, but nonetheless a mistake. 2 girlfriends of mine, one by rape of a former boyfriend and one by a boyfriend in a moment of weakness and unprotected sex, got pregnant and though they didn’t believe in abortion, the stresses of their lives at the time, inevitably resulted in them having abortions. Likewise, acquaintances of mine engaged in the world of porn, due to traumatic life experiences, fear of death or the kind of world that a child should never live in, due to rape or otherwise, have had abortions. I love all of these women dearly and would never sit on some anonymous throne and judge them. However, some by choice and some succumb to the lifestyles they were living, brought them to those dilemma situations where a choice they otherwise would not have made, made it. I have made stupid mistakes in my life. Choices that were stupid that led to more stupid choices. These were essentially irresponsible acts. I do not condemn anyone for such as I too have found the grace of God and mercy and forgiveness. What I identified in my comments is part of a much bigger picture with farther reaching problems and issues. Unfortunately, the current President, with all the eyes and hopes on him, is part of a much bigger problem. I’m sure there were other men and women in Israel committing adultery, but when it comes to pointing it out, King David, a follower of God is singled out by the prophet Nathan. Likewise, in Jesus’ time, I’m sure Israel had other adulterers, but God, through John the Baptist, singles out Herod who happened to have taken his brothers wife. The leader or teacher, etc. has a much greater mantle or responsibility on his shoulder, because he represents… President Obama couldn’t determine when life began, and has been inclusive of the Christian community; just as he has been of every other community…you could say he has to be to be President because he is president of everyone. However, I can not forget the absolute correct description by someone who knew or knows him, Rev. Wright, in saying whatever he is doing; he is doing for “political expediency”. So he doesn’t show me that he stands for anything in particular but whatever is needed for the moment or that will appeal to the many. That certainly is “change” I can believe in. The only sure thing is change, but what we need is someone who is a rock and stands for something, and it certainly shouldn’t be change.

  21. Drew and Daniel: Thank you so much for taking the time, words, wisdom, thoughts, and courage to share some very controversial matters with us. Nice of Donny to allow such a forum on his blog.

    If nothing else results than a clinging to our God and Savior in these times of unrest and uncertainty, then Praise Him! I believe that’s the best result anyway. With differences of beliefs/opinions, the core foundation is still our salvation in the Cross of Jesus and a trust in Almighty God for our futures. Hopefully, our love for each other will still shine through even amongst the differences.

    • Dear Jean, you’re absolutely right. I have no problem loving those who disagree with me, even if from my own congregation, and more importantly, from my family in Christ. It’s just that scripture like Hosea 4:6: My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge… Amplified Bible explains some of the frustration I felt then and even now with a stimulus package that even his own people say is a temporary near term boost, but will in the long run not do much for the economy and hurt it. In fact, I’ve also heard that if they (congress, the government) do nothing, we’ll be better off as we work through this. It kind of reminds me of a segment of one of those funny sermons from Anthony Campolo’s “it’s Friday, But Sunday’s a coming’”. He talks about a certain study that showed a % of people who would be better after seeing a psychoanalyst. Then there was a greater % of people that would be better off after seeing a psychologist. And an even greater number who would be better off after seeing a psychiatrist and then finally, the greatest % of people who would be better off, if they saw no one, or maybe only a friend or someone of that level if they hadn’t spent all that money to get help. No different than when the demand for fuel drove down the price last summer, because people weren’t traveling as much, rather than anything Congress did with all of their scurrying around to try and “do something” when prices at the time were at $4/gallon. The same price our military was paying for fuel in Iraq…so much for being there because of oil.
      Speak of the ignorance that often is prevalent in the Church as a whole, when they’re faith and walk don’t affect their decisions like who they’ll vote for when all you have is two evils and the better of the two is a choice to consider…but then again, the people have spoken, as they did when they asked for a king like all the nations around them, seeing that Samuel’s sons would not be good leaders as prophets such as he was, because unfortunately, Samuel only had Eli to learn from as far as being a father, and just as Eli’s sons were rejected by God, so were Samuel’s sons and Moses spoke prophetically that one day, Israel would ask for a king. Scripture also indicates that whoever our leaders are, they are placed there by God or at least He allows them to be there and that we are to pray for them that they rule in wisdom and sound judgment. I cannot claim to have a handle on everything either, so that goes for me too. I perish in areas of my own life because I haven’t worked out my salvation and faith in areas, thus forfeiting God’s best for the mediocre, so in one sense, who am I to talk.
      But I completely agree with you and no ill will toward anyone, especially those of the Body of Christ and of course, our President. God forbid that something happen to him and he come back like the anti-Christ, considering the awesomeness and aura he now possesses among the masses of his followers, to be able to say with echoed voice and rhetorical grandeur “We are the people we’ve been waiting for”…like the Oracle from the Matrix. It sure sounds wise and awesome…. The question is, is it?
      On the issue of some believers squawking about President Obama lifting the ban on tax paid abortion overseas, this is what I meant. This came from some in my congregation whom I knew voted for him, confident he would bring change. And change he did. What was once a ban, he undid. That took a lot of work on his part. That pen was a 50 lb nemesis. Too bad children are involved.

  22. Drew and Daniel: Thank you so much for taking the time, words, wisdom, thoughts, and courage to share some very controversial matters with us. Nice of Donny to allow such a forum on his blog.

    If nothing else results than a clinging to our God and Savior in these times of unrest and uncertainty, then Praise Him! I believe that’s the best result anyway. With differences of beliefs/opinions, the core foundation is still our salvation in the Cross of Jesus and a trust in Almighty God for our futures. Hopefully, our love for each other will still shine through even amongst the differences.

    • Dear Jean, you’re absolutely right. I have no problem loving those who disagree with me, even if from my own congregation, and more importantly, from my family in Christ. It’s just that scripture like Hosea 4:6: My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge… Amplified Bible explains some of the frustration I felt then and even now with a stimulus package that even his own people say is a temporary near term boost, but will in the long run not do much for the economy and hurt it. In fact, I’ve also heard that if they (congress, the government) do nothing, we’ll be better off as we work through this. It kind of reminds me of a segment of one of those funny sermons from Anthony Campolo’s “it’s Friday, But Sunday’s a coming’”. He talks about a certain study that showed a % of people who would be better after seeing a psychoanalyst. Then there was a greater % of people that would be better off after seeing a psychologist. And an even greater number who would be better off after seeing a psychiatrist and then finally, the greatest % of people who would be better off, if they saw no one, or maybe only a friend or someone of that level if they hadn’t spent all that money to get help. No different than when the demand for fuel drove down the price last summer, because people weren’t traveling as much, rather than anything Congress did with all of their scurrying around to try and “do something” when prices at the time were at $4/gallon. The same price our military was paying for fuel in Iraq…so much for being there because of oil.
      Speak of the ignorance that often is prevalent in the Church as a whole, when they’re faith and walk don’t affect their decisions like who they’ll vote for when all you have is two evils and the better of the two is a choice to consider…but then again, the people have spoken, as they did when they asked for a king like all the nations around them, seeing that Samuel’s sons would not be good leaders as prophets such as he was, because unfortunately, Samuel only had Eli to learn from as far as being a father, and just as Eli’s sons were rejected by God, so were Samuel’s sons and Moses spoke prophetically that one day, Israel would ask for a king. Scripture also indicates that whoever our leaders are, they are placed there by God or at least He allows them to be there and that we are to pray for them that they rule in wisdom and sound judgment. I cannot claim to have a handle on everything either, so that goes for me too. I perish in areas of my own life because I haven’t worked out my salvation and faith in areas, thus forfeiting God’s best for the mediocre, so in one sense, who am I to talk.
      But I completely agree with you and no ill will toward anyone, especially those of the Body of Christ and of course, our President. God forbid that something happen to him and he come back like the anti-Christ, considering the awesomeness and aura he now possesses among the masses of his followers, to be able to say with echoed voice and rhetorical grandeur “We are the people we’ve been waiting for”…like the Oracle from the Matrix. It sure sounds wise and awesome…. The question is, is it?
      On the issue of some believers squawking about President Obama lifting the ban on tax paid abortion overseas, this is what I meant. This came from some in my congregation whom I knew voted for him, confident he would bring change. And change he did. What was once a ban, he undid. That took a lot of work on his part. That pen was a 50 lb nemesis. Too bad children are involved.

  23. Jean,

    I love discussions, even if I disagree with them. We all learn through such.

    I am looking forward to threaded comments, which is a feature that will be available any day from the providers of the software that runs this website. This will allow us to click “reply” to a comment we want to reply to, and will organize comments in a way that it’s easy to tell who’s talking to who. Can’t wait!

    I’m off to photograph some client vehicles, and then heading to the Simpson University library to do a little studying! I’m loving my current class! It’s very faith building.

  24. Jean,

    I love discussions, even if I disagree with them. We all learn through such.

    I am looking forward to threaded comments, which is a feature that will be available any day from the providers of the software that runs this website. This will allow us to click “reply” to a comment we want to reply to, and will organize comments in a way that it’s easy to tell who’s talking to who. Can’t wait!

    I’m off to photograph some client vehicles, and then heading to the Simpson University library to do a little studying! I’m loving my current class! It’s very faith building.

  25. Just a word to the wise here; if you have a point you want to make then just state it concisely. Too many words and your audience loses interest. Thanks.

    • Dear Dr. Murray (I believe that is what the MD might mean), I am truly sorry to not have included MLA/APA citations or links to which I formulated through association and heuristic analysis, what I was trying to say as well as be more concise as with nursing notes, to indicate more clearly the problem area I was trying to describe, as I of course wrote all this down bungling with emotion and the need to express myself, thus, wrote it in a more conversational manner rather than as a journal or through a scientific method. Pardon my delay in responding as I had to take time to verify the links whether they were still usable or not. I left some of the “agenda” driven reports as latter reports. Though having begun this a few weeks ago, I can’t guarantee that these links are still working.
      Please note: I tried posting the links here but it wouldn’t allow me to so hopefully this link to my blog on this will work. Otherwise, copy and paste it to your url. Once there, scroll down mid-way to my update which includes the citations, links, etc.

      http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=117292031&blogId=466491950

  26. Just a word to the wise here; if you have a point you want to make then just state it concisely. Too many words and your audience loses interest. Thanks.

    • Dear Dr. Murray (I believe that is what the MD might mean), I am truly sorry to not have included MLA/APA citations or links to which I formulated through association and heuristic analysis, what I was trying to say as well as be more concise as with nursing notes, to indicate more clearly the problem area I was trying to describe, as I of course wrote all this down bungling with emotion and the need to express myself, thus, wrote it in a more conversational manner rather than as a journal or through a scientific method. Pardon my delay in responding as I had to take time to verify the links whether they were still usable or not. I left some of the “agenda” driven reports as latter reports. Though having begun this a few weeks ago, I can’t guarantee that these links are still working.
      Please note: I tried posting the links here but it wouldn’t allow me to so hopefully this link to my blog on this will work. Otherwise, copy and paste it to your url. Once there, scroll down mid-way to my update which includes the citations, links, etc.

      http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=117292031&blogId=466491950

  27. To Drew~

    You’d think Paul would be less thankful for something he’s allegedly condemning.

    He’s simply stating that he’ll pray both with his spirit (so his spirit is edified and God is praised) and his mind (so others may praise God with him). It in no way says he won’t be using tongues in church. It simply says he’d “RATHER” speak with his mind in church.

    I wonder which he would rather speak with in his personal time with God.

    Talk about a “willfull choosing of Scriptural texts”.

    Epic fail. Nice try though.

    And as far as education….sometimes seminary ruins faith. I know far too many seminary students who had to un-learn some of what they were taught so they could get back to “mustard-seed faith”.

    Sounds like someone holds bitterness toward pentecostals.

  28. To Drew~

    You’d think Paul would be less thankful for something he’s allegedly condemning.

    He’s simply stating that he’ll pray both with his spirit (so his spirit is edified and God is praised) and his mind (so others may praise God with him). It in no way says he won’t be using tongues in church. It simply says he’d “RATHER” speak with his mind in church.

    I wonder which he would rather speak with in his personal time with God.

    Talk about a “willfull choosing of Scriptural texts”.

    Epic fail. Nice try though.

    And as far as education….sometimes seminary ruins faith. I know far too many seminary students who had to un-learn some of what they were taught so they could get back to “mustard-seed faith”.

    Sounds like someone holds bitterness toward pentecostals.

  29. Nancy, thanks for sharing your experience in your post. You write from your heart and that’s my favorite type of writing to read.

    Donny, I miss having a dog. I have a lot of allergies, so I can’t risk it, but they are amazing animals…so loyal and loving.

    Also, I love this Joyce Meyer quote: “I have news for you. There’s not gonna be a Baptist section in heaven, a Methodist section, a Lutheran section, a Pentecostal section, a Catholic section. We’re just all gonna have to get along there, so we might as well start practicing here.”

  30. Nancy, thanks for sharing your experience in your post. You write from your heart and that’s my favorite type of writing to read.

    Donny, I miss having a dog. I have a lot of allergies, so I can’t risk it, but they are amazing animals…so loyal and loving.

    Also, I love this Joyce Meyer quote: “I have news for you. There’s not gonna be a Baptist section in heaven, a Methodist section, a Lutheran section, a Pentecostal section, a Catholic section. We’re just all gonna have to get along there, so we might as well start practicing here.”

  31. I will definately pray for Carrie. I have a friend like that myelf, his name is Vince. He is definately one of the most Christian people I know in love, thought, and actions, but he turned away from Christianity to declare himself agnostic due to all the hypocracy and harmful actions he has witnessed from those who declare themselves Christian. He is also very liberal, opinionated, and outspoken, and, ironically enough, his two biggest issues are animal rights and the right for homosexuals to marry. I love him with my whole heart, and I know that he has been a wonderful tool for God in showing others how to love and care about the world outside of themselves, but I also know that God could work so much more through him and wants to as well. I know he’ll find God in the end, and I pray every day that it happens soon, or at least at the right time.

  32. I will definately pray for Carrie. I have a friend like that myelf, his name is Vince. He is definately one of the most Christian people I know in love, thought, and actions, but he turned away from Christianity to declare himself agnostic due to all the hypocracy and harmful actions he has witnessed from those who declare themselves Christian. He is also very liberal, opinionated, and outspoken, and, ironically enough, his two biggest issues are animal rights and the right for homosexuals to marry. I love him with my whole heart, and I know that he has been a wonderful tool for God in showing others how to love and care about the world outside of themselves, but I also know that God could work so much more through him and wants to as well. I know he’ll find God in the end, and I pray every day that it happens soon, or at least at the right time.

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